Lightest bar pressure 11m kite for old school tricks

[rnelias]

Guys... all of the cited kites can be adjusted for lighter/heavier bar pressure. It's a matter of trimming accordingly.

Regarding the hang time, I second the foil kite suggestion. No tube big air kite will give you more hang time than a soft kite.

[SMJ]

How long a go did you fly a soul? I currently have two xr kites, an orbit and 2 souls. The soul has by far the lowest bar pressure of them all.

I currently have a quiver of XR's (6's and 7's) and a quiver of Souls (V1), so I respectfully disagree. I find the Soul to be much heavier on the bar than the XR's.

All of my observations are based on the kites' factory default bridle & wingtip settings. Also, I fly each brand with that brand's bar.

Are you flying each kite with their brand's bars or are you mixing bars? The XR's have to be flown on the Core Sensor bar to be properly evaluated.

[SMJ]

Guys... all of the cited kites can be adjusted for lighter/heavier bar pressure. It's a matter of trimming accordingly.

All of my observations are based on how the kites come from the factory (on both the bridle and wingtip settings). Another factor is flying each brand with that brand's bar - which I also do. Mixing bars also has an impact on bar pressure - particularly when mixing High-Y and Low-V bars.

[edt]

nothing beats the soul! Yes it's a foil but it feels like a tube kite incredibly reliable in the air, and because it's a foil you get much more hang time compared to a tube kite. The rest of the kite world hasn't caught up yet, but for now, 2022, soul is the kite to do board offs, jesus walks, hand drags any of those sorts of tricks. if you must use a tube kite for one reason or another (for instance if the thought of swimming back to shore when your kite bowties terrifies you) the best kite to get is the orbit. The others just aren't as good, this kite has been refined in the last two years. If you go used do not get a 2020 orbit! They jump just as high but they are very finicky and hard to control, not what you want when you are flipping the board in the air and need your kite to just sit there and give you lift. Rebel is good too, and I have heard great things about the SLS kites. If you like ozone I would probably get the zephyr instead of the edge. That kite isn't as responsive as the other brand's 5 strut kites.

the tube kites generally have higher bar pressure than the foil kites. I normally don't think too much about bar pressure, heavy or light it doesn't matter to me so I can't tell which of the tube kites has the lightest bar pressure.

[Blackened]

The OP is concerned with bar pressure, so I would rule out foil kites - particularly the Flysurfer Soul which has heavy bar pressure.

I have to humbly disagree with Blackened. There's no way the XR has heavier bar pressure than the Rebel or the Edge. I encourage you not to believe either of us, and Google around. It's fairly well documented that the XR has the lightest bar pressure of these 3 kites - all of which I've flown recently.

The Orbit does have the lightest bar pressure in the OP's list, but I would not consider this kite an Airstyle kite. The Orbit was designed to win King of the Air...which it did. The Orbit is much better suited to big air / kiteloops rather than hangtime / Airstyle.

No comment on the Slingshot Machine, as I haven't flown this kite yet.

It might be a different size thing. Some sizes have varying bar pressures - for instance, flew a Pivot 26 the other day in 12, 11, and 9m. 12/9m were light and playful. The 11m was heavy and dull. Still jumped and floated like a Pivot, but that's where the similarities ended. It's almost like they forgot about the 11m when they were development testing. I haven't flown the XR above a 10m. I didn't check the leading edge bridle settings, but the wingtip was light for all 3.

Agreed that Orbit is not an Airstyle kite.

[Blackened]

nothing beats the soul! Yes it's a foil but it feels like a tube kite incredibly reliable in the air, and because it's a foil you get much more hang time compared to a tube kite. The rest of the kite world hasn't caught up yet, but for now, 2022, soul is the kite to do board offs, jesus walks, hand drags any of those sorts of tricks. if you must use a tube kite for one reason or another (for instance if the thought of swimming back to shore when your kite bowties terrifies you) the best kite to get is the orbit. The others just aren't as good, this kite has been refined in the last two years. If you go used do not get a 2020 orbit! They jump just as high but they are very finicky and hard to control, not what you want when you are flipping the board in the air and need your kite to just sit there and give you lift. Rebel is good too, and I have heard great things about the SLS kites. If you like ozone I would probably get the zephyr instead of the edge. That kite isn't as responsive as the other brand's 5 strut kites.

the tube kites generally have higher bar pressure than the foil kites. I normally don't think too much about bar pressure, heavy or light it doesn't matter to me so I can't tell which of the tube kites has the lightest bar pressure.

Zephyr doesn't come in size 11m

[SMJ]

It might be a different size thing. Some sizes have varying bar pressures - for instance, flew a Pivot 26 the other day in 12, 11, and 9m. 12/9m were light and playful. The 11m was heavy and dull. Still jumped and floated like a Pivot, but that's where the similarities ended. It's almost like they forgot about the 11m when they were development testing. I haven't flown the XR above a 10m. I didn't check the leading edge bridle settings, but the wingtip was light for all 3.

Agreed that Orbit is not an Airstyle kite.

Agreed. The different sizes definitely have widely varying degrees of bar pressure.

[nothing2seehere]

The OP is concerned with bar pressure, so I would rule out foil kites - particularly the Flysurfer Soul which has heavy bar pressure.

I have to humbly disagree with Blackend. There's no way the XR has heavier bar pressure than the Rebel or the Edge. I encourage you not to believe either of us, and Google around. It's fairly well documented that the XR has the lightest bar pressure of these 3 kites - all of which I've flown recently.

The Orbit does have the lightest bar pressure in the OP's list, but I would not consider this kite an Airstyle kite. The Orbit was designed to win King of the Air...which it did. The Orbit is much better suited to big air / kiteloops rather than hangtime / Airstyle.

No comment on the Slingshot Machine, as I haven't flown this kite yet.

How long a go did you fly a soul? I currently have two xr kites, an orbit and 2 souls. The soul has by far the lowest bar pressure of them all.

I think the distinction here is whether you are looking at bar pressure at the low end or high end. Like you I have all 3 kites (XR6 instead of XR7 though) and my initial impression was that the XR6 had heavier bar pressure than the Rebel (normal daily driver). The rebel has very balanced pressure between the bar and the harness so it feels light and weights up as the wind strength increases. The Soul is very light bar pressure but weights up heavily as the wind increases - the least controllable one without using trim but that's simply part of the design (3 stage depower or something). Lower bar pressure can be maintained by increasing the trim (something I rarely do on my LEI kits). The XR starts with a fairly moderate bar feeling - even at low wind strengths but the feeling of weight on the bar only increases slightly as the wind picks up.

Its a case of both answers are correct. If you want to do airstyle at the bottom of the windrange (I learnt one footers in 13 knots on a 10m soul so even at the low end the hangtime is decent) then the foil kite is going to be king (compared to an 11m LEI) but if you want to be going out in 25+knots then you're going to hate a foil kite (mainly the setup/launch/landing/packing away).

The value for money option though is a tree branch in the garden/park and then rigging up a board off simulator with an old bar. You'll get hundreds more attempts in quick succession to get the coordination right and it'll be easier to refine once you have that muscle memory. Remember that the wave guys can do rodeos and tic-tacs on wave kites which have the least amount of hangtime around so a normal freeride kite isn't an issue once you have the coordination.

[Red Pointer]

Anybody, How is the bar pressure on the Reedin Supermodels?

[Indulang]

I know it's a bit delayed lol. But I want to thank everyone for the suggestions

I now have some real experience with tail grabs and it contradicts my very "first impressions". When I first tried to take my backhand off the bar mid-jump on my 8m Rebel, I felt too much bar pressure on the front hand. It "felt" almost impossible to hold it sheeted in. Now that I've practiced about 50+ grabs, I don't feel any such excessive pressure regardless of the kite. I did them with high bar pressure kites (Rebel 8m) and low bar pressure kites (Evo SLS 11m) and I only feel marginally extra pressure with the Rebel. With the 8m naturally, it feels more rushed due to the lower hang time.

For anyone else interested in grabs and board-offs, I think the below advice is the FASTEST way to improve muscle memory. I haven't gotten around to trying it yet but this will be far more efficient at creating muscle memory.

The value for money option though is a tree branch in the garden/park and then rigging up a board off simulator with an old bar. You'll get hundreds more attempts in quick succession to get the coordination right and it'll be easier to refine once you have that muscle memory. Remember that the wave guys can do rodeos and tic-tacs on wave kites which have the least amount of hangtime around so a normal freeride kite isn't an issue once you have the coordination.

Thank you nothing2seehere for the brilliant insight!!