Replacements for my Dices

[Blackened]

Hi,

Currently, I have a set of dices (7, 9, 12m) and I am looking to change my gear. I am an intermediate level (basic unhooking, darkslides, board-offs, loops and bow starting with boogies and late-backs). What I dont like at the dices is the bar-pressure (too high), the unevenly force of pull during a loop (makes it more difficult with the boogies, late backs) the constantly need to work the kite, the ‘difficulty’ everything needs to be perfect to jump 15+ meters (this seems much more easy on XRs, Rebels and Orbits) and the lack. My weight is 90kg

Therefore, I am looking into a new set and size up 1m with my weight, the gap between 9 and 12 is sometime a bit too big (also the dice needs quite some wind). First I thought, also due to my weight, an 8m, 10m Orbit and a 12m Reach. It seems still possible to loop the 10m as it’s fast and catches easy. However, some people say that an Orbit needs perfect technique to get some decent heights. So this makes it bit confusing.

Is this true and what other kites fit my requirements? Evo SLS?

As edt said, '22 Orbits are much easier to use than the '20s. Depending on your upper wind range limit, the quiver you spec'd is perfect. At 95-100kg, my smallest Orbit storm kite is an 8m. You won't really use it unless the wind is over 35-40kn consistently though. I don't bother with mine unless it's sustained over 40kn.

You could probably go 1m bigger on the Reach to give yourself a little more power at the 15kn mark, but it depends how often you ride in light wind. It has more low end than the Dice, so I guess it'll depend to what you're accustomed.

[wrogu]

I am on dice atm as well. As I do not unhook on 9m anymore I wonder where to go. I know I like to jump and loop. So a nonlooping kite is not an option. Did not like 2021 Orbits. Tried dice 10m on the same day and 10m rebel, both in SLS. So far the dice sls is a winner for me. Rebel jumps insanely good but I would have double thoughts to loop it. Makes me wonder if 2022 orbit is really much better than 2021. Or what will 2023 bring. The idea of a jumping and actually looping 5 strut kite is attractive to me. Or maybe the new rebel will be more orbit alike but with a nice bar feel and feedback?

[Blackened]

I am on dice atm as well. As I do not unhook on 9m anymore I wonder where to go. I know I like to jump and loop. So a nonlooping kite is not an option. Did not like 2021 Orbits. Tried dice 10m on the same day and 10m rebel, both in SLS. So far the dice sls is a winner for me. Rebel jumps insanely good but I would have double thoughts to loop it. Makes me wonder if 2022 orbit is really much better than 2021. Or what will 2023 bring. The idea of a jumping and actually looping 5 strut kite is attractive to me. Or maybe the new rebel will be more orbit alike but with a nice bar feel and feedback?

If you don't like the '21s, you won't like the '22s. I doubt they'll dramatically redesign the '23s, considering it won KOTA last year.

Stick with the Dice. Rebel loops well in 9m or less. 10m is okay but takes some piloting - at least in my testing. Although, the last one I rode was a 2021. I haven't ridden the SLS version. Hadlow was riding a (what looked like) a proto rebel that seemed to loop better at KOTA last year. If you don't like the Orbit and really want a 5 strut looper, could wait to see what happens with that?

[nothing2seehere]

Aaron was riding his own design kite for KOTA last year. He talked about it in his youtube channel with Lenten. I got the impression he was looking to get into the design side as well as the testing and this was his way of seeing if he could go through the process from start to finish (as well as having a custom kite rather than a production model)

Plenty of 5 strut looping kites out there though. Vegas/Eleveight FS/Ozone Amp to name a handful. Some of them will be more friendly to ride than others though and you'll trade off against the hang time and soft landings.

[wrogu]

Yeah what I intend to do is to wait and test 2023 grear in autmn. Will make a choice based on tests.

[Dutchman]

I am on dice atm as well. As I do not unhook on 9m anymore I wonder where to go. I know I like to jump and loop. So a nonlooping kite is not an option. Did not like 2021 Orbits. Tried dice 10m on the same day and 10m rebel, both in SLS. So far the dice sls is a winner for me. Rebel jumps insanely good but I would have double thoughts to loop it. Makes me wonder if 2022 orbit is really much better than 2021. Or what will 2023 bring. The idea of a jumping and actually looping 5 strut kite is attractive to me. Or maybe the new rebel will be more orbit alike but with a nice bar feel and feedback?

From what I have seen around me, I think the Rebel SLS seems to be a good kite that's looping fast. Think you should try that one as well.

Also with the pro's, they are starting to use the Rebel more often for competitions. However, they are pro's and are able to kite with almost any kite haha.

[Leon van Bergen]

I haven't tested the Rebel SLS and am not a pro but I have the 2021 Rebels in 7, 9 & 11m and I loop them like crazy, i think due to these flex struts. They loop many times better than the 2019 and 20 models I've also had.
The catch and turning circle has gotten much better and quicker and the kite always catches me after a loop, even the 11m !

[Gestalt]

Anyone have experience and can compare the bar pressure between the Dice, Rebel, Edge and XR7?
I have heard the Orbit has light bar pressure which I find appealing. From experience I find the bar pressure on the Pivot a bit on the heavy side.

[Robbert014]

I just got the Dice SLS (11m). I have never been more disappointed buying a new kite. At low speeds unhooking is fine, but as the wind picks up (like 19/20 kts) the slack is gone. The pull is way too much in my opinion causing very high impact landings (and thus crashes). Whenever I switch to my old dice (2018 dice, 11m) I am fine again in the same windspeed (19/20 knots). I am actually scared of injury with this kite.

I don't know if switching back to the normal dice will solve this. I can't find a new 2020 or 2021 anymore, but I would gladly go back. I spoke to Duotone and they said that they tweaked the SLS kite to be more user friendly, because few people unhook these days. The on/off characteristic of the Dice made it less appealing to the general public. But in my opinion they ruined the unhooked slack.

I feel cheated because they kept telling me the unhooked performance on the SLS was improved..

So I'd say, do some testing. But don't go for the dice SLS if you want to unhook.

[galzohar]

You should first decide what you want. If you want to do unhooked, you will still need capable kites for that, at least in the bigger sizes, which complicates things.
If you don't want to unhook, then orbit/rebel is really not something you can go wrong with, although I haven't had the chance to try an orbit larger than 11m.
I have a 13m rebel and 9m orbit now, although when I was doing unhooked tricks I was using 14m+10m+8m Cabrinha FX (although older ones, where looping/freestyle settings was just a knot on the bridle, and not an entire bridle change like they started with the 2022 model). The FX loops nice too but the Orbit is much nicer (and probably Rebel too, but I only tried it in 11m and 13m with 24m lines so far).