E-foil battery burn

[Nak]

That's a great idea! We should put them in cars.

Yes, because gasoline powered cars never burn.

[Kamikuza]

That's a great idea! We should put them in cars.

Yes, because gasoline powered cars never burn.

Right. A tank of gas often spontaneously combusts due to thermal runaway or exposure to atmosphere, can only be extinguished with specialized equipment, and often reignites a day after it’s been declared doused

Question: how many cars has Richard Hammond crashed that have caught fire and kept catching fire?

[Trent hink]

This one sure looks like a Lift:

Notice the apprehension of the firefighter (in full gear), to approach it.

[Adventure Logs]

People go through lift batteries quite often, I wouldn't trust them too much. Part of the reason I went with Flite. I think the new Foil battery physically disconnects when not in use, not sure how that will work. Being a cargo pilot, lithium fires scare the crap out of me.

[Nak]

Right. A tank of gas often spontaneously combusts due to thermal runaway or exposure to atmosphere, can only be extinguished with specialized equipment, and often reignites a day after it’s been declared doused

Question: how many cars has Richard Hammond crashed that have caught fire and kept catching fire?

LOL. I wonder what's more combustible: gasoline or a Lithium Ion battery? As statistically relevant as one or two anecdotal stories on the internet are, perhaps it would be wiser to look at actual data. It should come as no surprise to anyone that gasoline powered vehicles catch fire at a rate just over 60 times as often as EVs when the numbers are corrected for the number of each vehicle type sold. in 2018 alone, almost 600 people died in gasoline powered vehicle fires. https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-elec ... car-fires/

Yes, it's true, an EV fire is harder to extinguish than a gasoline fire. OTH, battery fires propagate at a much slower rate than gasoline fires: which means that you're far more likely to survive an EV fire than a gasoline fire. Far. More. Likely.

TLDR: If you're concerned about car fires, get an EV and avoid fossil fuel powered vehicles. I mean, that's pretty obvious, right?

[Nak]

People go through lift batteries quite often, I wouldn't trust them too much. Part of the reason I went with Flite. I think the new Foil battery physically disconnects when not in use, not sure how that will work. Being a cargo pilot, lithium fires scare the crap out of me.

Please supply your data. I'm guessing you have none other than anecdotal evidence from internet posts.(Which by the way does not count as useful data. Everyone knows that right?) Being a retired cargo pilot and International airline captain, lithium fires also scare the heck out of me. I have no more concerns over a Lift battery than a Flite battery. Both are fine batteries. Yes, some people have batteries that fail early on, And Lift replaces them without question. I'm guessing the same holds true for Flite. The numbers for Lift are in line with expected battery failures for any brand battery, although I am not free to disclose references for this. I will say that I researched both Flite and Lift extensively before I invested in Lift last year.

I'm glad you like your Flite, it's a great board. I myself prefer the Lift for various reasons after riding both. Neither is perfect, some are going to prefer the Flite, some the Lift. Each has pros and cons.

[Adventure Logs]

People go through lift batteries quite often, I wouldn't trust them too much. Part of the reason I went with Flite. I think the new Foil battery physically disconnects when not in use, not sure how that will work. Being a cargo pilot, lithium fires scare the crap out of me.

Please supply your data. I'm guessing you have none other than anecdotal evidence from internet posts.(Which by the way does not count as useful data. Everyone knows that right?) Being a retired cargo pilot and International airline captain, lithium fires also scare the heck out of me. I have no more concerns over a Lift battery than a Flite battery. Both are fine batteries. Yes, some people have batteries that fail early on, And Lift replaces them without question. I'm guessing the same holds true for Flite. The numbers for Lift are in line with expected battery failures for any brand battery, although I am not free to disclose references for this. I will say that I researched both Flite and Lift extensively before I invested in Lift last year.

I'm glad you like your Flite, it's a great board. I myself prefer the Lift for various reasons after riding both. Neither is perfect, some are going to prefer the Flite, some the Lift. Each has pros and cons.

Guess I found the Lift fan boy. I have seen several Lift battery fires through social media platforms now since I've started seriously looking into efoils, not a single Flite.

I did significate research between the two boards. The only advantage I saw on the lift was the ability to use the wings while kiting and the lack of inspection requirement for warranty. That's it. They're controller sucks, their internals are way too complex-more like a home made board-which gives more chance for failure, more involved to clean after salt use(which is my main use), harder to swap boards(I plan on having a spare large board for rentals), weaker masts, and less optimal placement of the motor.

When it comes down to it, lift is over charging IMO. With the prices being the same as they are, Flite is obviously the superior design. I was going to get a Lift3F since at a couple thousand less, I could overlook the outdated internals, but it couldn't configure it with the longer mast so wasn't for me. Lift needs to catch up. Simple as that.

[Nak]

Guess I found the Lift fan boy. I have seen several Lift battery fires through social media platforms now since I've started seriously looking into efoils, not a single Flite.

I did significate research between the two boards. The only advantage I saw on the lift was the ability to use the wings while kiting and the lack of inspection requirement for warranty. That's it. They're controller sucks, their internals are way too complex-more like a home made board-which gives more chance for failure, more involved to clean after salt use(which is my main use), harder to swap boards(I plan on having a spare large board for rentals), weaker masts, and less optimal placement of the motor.

When it comes down to it, lift is over charging IMO. With the prices being the same as they are, Flite is obviously the superior design. I was going to get a Lift3F since at a couple thousand less, I could overlook the outdated internals, but it couldn't configure it with the longer mast so wasn't for me. Lift needs to catch up. Simple as that.

You know, when you start out your reply with an Ad Hominem logical fallacy you're pretty much telling the world you can't really support your position with a rational, valid, argument. Rather than stoop to insulting you simply because you disagree with me--and the fact that you started out by insulting me--I'll simply address your errors.

1: Hmm, apparently your research wasn't so "significant."

2: Other benefits of the Lift design that your "research" didn't turn up.
A. Liquid cooling results in cooler electronics. This will likely will help the electronics live longer.
B. The "way too complex" board to mast connection takes all of 10 seconds longer to hook up than Flite. Total board assembly from a flat condition--necessary with a car or many boats--is faster with Lift.
C: By utilizing Liquid cooling Lift is able to use a carbon fiber mast as opposed to the aluminum mast of the Flite.
D: It's merely your opinion that the Lift Controller "sucks." I personally prefer the larger size as it's easier to flip up into my hand after riding unpowered.
E: Lift utilizes a folding prop as opposed to the free spinning prop Flite uses. Each has it's pros and cons. The Flite prop is easier to learn to power on and off; the Lift prop has significantly less drag when un-powered but is more difficult to achieve the skills required to power on and off while riding swell. So Flite is easier, but Lift--if you take the time to master the skills--is a much better experience when riding wakes, waves or swell. Me, I'll take the time to learn so that riding river swell is more like a regular hydrofoil.
F: Not only can you ride Lift eFoil wings when kiting, you can use many kite and wing foil wings with a Lift eFoil. If you're into multiple foiling sports this can save you thousands of dollars over Flite. I use my Moses/Sabfoil wings, my SS Phantasm wings and my Lift wings with my Lift eFoil.
G: The Lift mast allows you to have your wing 4" deeper than Flite's 28". This has pros and cons which anyone that hydrofoils will understand.
H: Lifts center of thrust is more centered as regards to drag than Flite. This creates a slightly more stable ride.

3: "Less optimal placement of the motor" for Lift. Really? Explain that. In certain situations that's true, in others not so much. Do you understand which is which? Regardless, in the one situation that it's true, the Lift folding prop more than makes up the difference.

4: "harder to swap boards." yes, it will take several seconds longer to swap a mast from board to board with Lift over Flite. OTH, extra masts will be much more expensive with Flite as the electronics are contained in the mast. Of course, that makes Lift spare boards more expensive, unless you opt to swap out the ESC as well.

5: You're absolutely right, it does take several minutes longer to properly rinse a Lift board after use in salt water.

6: Lift "weaker masts." Yes, carbon fiber masts are so much worse than aluminum masts. Seriously?

7: Do you understand the meaning of "statistically significant?" Yes there have been several Lift battery fires, and I believe Flite has not had one yet. Given that we don't actually know the cause of those fires and that Lift outsells Flite many times over, we can't draw any conclusions from these "social media" posts. Were the batteries abused? Were they left in the direct hot sun? We don't know. I do know that any Lithium Ion battery can catch fire if proper precautions aren't observed. Any. That's why I take care of my batteries. Only a fool thinks he/she doesn't need to take proper care of ANY battery.

8: Lift is "over-charging." Really? Do you not understand supply and demand? Lift outsells everyone else and there is almost always a waiting list to get a Lift eFoil. By definition, they are not "over-charging."

Again, I think Flite boards are great. I think anyone that buys one will be very happy with it. But then I'm secure in my choice of Lift and am enjoying my Lift eFoils greatly. I wonder why you're so insecure in your choice of eFoil that you have to insult anyone that prefers a different board?

[Adventure Logs]

You must be a Lift dealer, I don't mean to hurt your business but you are out of the loop.

-The cooling system is inferior on the Lift. More chances for problems, more chances for failures. Anything that is going to run salt water through it's system will eventually corrode, clog, and fail. That's just one less problem you have to worry about with the Flite. Also there hasn't been a SINGLE broken or bent mast on the Flite. Most definitely can't say the same about Lift. I'm glad with my Flite I don't have to worry about hitting the bottom in shallow places like SPI especially when learning. Also I can cruise and explore up here in MN on unfamiliar lakes and rivers without the fear of hitting something and breaking a mast going at speed. BIG BENIFIT Also it's 2500 dollars to replace a mast on the Lift. That's a expensive fix.

-Where's your data that backs you're claim the Lift keeps the electronics cooler? Sure won't cool much when you ingest something into that cooling system. Common problem for my jet ski down in SPI, something I didn't want to worry about with my eFoil.

-The fact that you "prefer" the Lift controller proves your bias. There's nothing good about that controller. It's huge! You have to even be careful getting up on the board that you don't damage your board or controller doing so! Lots of Lift controller failures(Lift has a good warranty though and will replace them) and several people just now have a spare. Oh and you just as easily "flip" the more compact, superior controller just as well. Coming from the OneWheel, I hate any kind of hand controller. I couldn't imagine having to lug that enormous thing around. Time will tell if the elite controller will be any better. I'm skeptical of the color display in direct sunlight.

-Flites mast is 29 inches and due to the motor placement, utilizes more of the mast than lift. Now with Lift's longer mast, I think the lift might be slightly longer USEABLE mast length, but it's not by much. Speaking of mast and motor placement, since Lift's trust isn't inline with the foil, there's always a turning movement when adding/reducing trust. It's not linear like the Flite. So this means that the Lift is less stable, requires more front foot corrections(compare riding videos of lift/flite. Life riders have to constantly keep adjusting their front foot pressure while the Flite is smooth), and the Lift has much more violent breaches. I'm amazed by how gentle the breach on a Flite is. You just gently settle back into the water, impressive.

-Did I say anything about proper care of a battery? And name calling now? Don't be so defensive. The facts are Lift has had several battery fires, Fliteboard hasn't had a single one.

-Flite offers the SMALLEST board, the LIGHTEST set up, the biggest board variety with a range from a 4'2 to inflatable. To get another board from Flite it's around 3k. From Lift IF you can get one is around $2500 and you STILL need to swap out the internals or spend even more money on that.

-I won't even get into the shims or the GREAT advantage of having 6 different options to custom my ride for each specific wing in each specific condition.

-Lift IS overcharging. I can build Lift's setup in my garage basically. Can't do that with a Flite.

Not sure why just giving facts translates to insults? Perhaps grow thicker skin? Yes my research was extensive. When I decide to spend as much as an efoil costs bascially on a toy, I put the work in to make the best choice. I'm sure tons of people love their Lifts and if I went that route, I would have been happy too. Yes I would have worried more about hitting the bottom or any debris which would have taken from my experience. Just in my opinion, lift's design is outdated and they over charge for what they are offering. Yes, Lift tries to make up for this by having amazing customer service on their warranty, but that only lasts two years and I plan on keeping my board much longer than that.

[Kamikuza]

LOL. I wonder what's more combustible: gasoline or a Lithium Ion battery? As statistically relevant as one or two anecdotal stories on the internet are, perhaps it would be wiser to look at actual data. It should come as no surprise to anyone that gasoline powered vehicles catch fire at a rate just over 60 times as often as EVs when the numbers are corrected for the number of each vehicle type sold. in 2018 alone, almost 600 people died in gasoline powered vehicle fires. https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-elec ... car-fires/

Yes, it's true, an EV fire is harder to extinguish than a gasoline fire. OTH, battery fires propagate at a much slower rate than gasoline fires: which means that you're far more likely to survive an EV fire than a gasoline fire. Far. More. Likely.

TLDR: If you're concerned about car fires, get an EV and avoid fossil fuel powered vehicles. I mean, that's pretty obvious, right?

I didn't say "car fires", I said "a tank of gas".

I've seen an abandoned car with nothing inside it -- no engine, gas tank, seats, dash -- go up in flames. Sure, we got it started with some gas from our tanks, but it went up with more enthusiasm than it should have.

But I'm not concerned about my tank of gas going into thermal runaway, and I don't have to cool it or store it in a fire proof safe bag -- unlike the LiPO batteries for my RC stuff.

I don't know what's in your link, can't access it.