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flared tips on dice with 4 line but not 5

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Sean7210
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Re: flared tips on dice with 4 line but not 5

Postby Sean7210 » Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:59 am

Hi everyboy and sorry for my poor englinsh.

Same problem with:
2014 Dice, 7 and 9 m
2018 Dice 12 m

Got little improvement (far from solve the problem) washing bridle lines,

I asked to a Duotone worker and he told me the problem cames from a material consistency deterioring caming maybe from a very little use, maybe from an overuse, maybe from high temperatures storing maybe....maybe...so it seems they know the problem byt not very worried about the solve.

Got little more improvment overi-over-nflating the kite.

Obviosly not very happy about Duotone quality.

Herman
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Re: flared tips on dice with 4 line but not 5

Postby Herman » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:06 pm

The following is just background info which may be interesting to the technically minded. The engineering governing this sort of problem is not necessarily intuitive. Pressure in a tube does not affect the bending properties of a tube, why would it the pressure is even all the way round. It does however significantly effect the tubes ability to withstand buckling. Therefore, unless these S shapes are very subtle the LE tube is buckling even if they are micro buckles. From a flying point of view the mode of distortion it is not particularly relevant. Sadly from a wear point of view, even if they are micro buckles they are likely to create hinge points that will result in wear, and I would expect deterioration of the structure.

Feel free to doubt the above, either way I have no intention to rehearse the maths that would prove the above hypothesis!

PS It would be interesting to know if their were any witness marks of hinge points on the affected kites?

skyte
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Re: flared tips on dice with 4 line but not 5

Postby skyte » Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:07 pm

I bet the bridle has shrunk.
Cheap bridle line shrinks when it gets wet then dries. The best bridle line is dyneema as it doesn't do this.
Polyester bridle line does shrink and that often will cause the wingtips to curl inwards.
You can try getting the correct line lengths from the manufacturer and then stretching your bridles but if they've shrunk once they'll shrink again so you could try finding a good retailer or repair place that can make bridles and get one made from spliced dyneema.

Herman
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Re: flared tips on dice with 4 line but not 5

Postby Herman » Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:13 pm

To clarify, the post on tube buckling etc was not meant to imply that this was the root cause. As already discussed the root cause of the problem may well be bridle shrinkage that started the issue. Or of course, it could be a bit of both.

Sean7210
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Re: flared tips on dice with 4 line but not 5

Postby Sean7210 » Sat Sep 10, 2022 6:33 pm

Both improvements, washing lines and over inflating are facts in my case I haven't any doubt about micro structure theories (have not knowledge enough neither).

The problem appeared with a pair of years of kite use so if buy a new bridle lines was a solution for another 2 years I woukd buy it but I told Duotine people about that and he answered me it was not the problem...

Herman
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Re: flared tips on dice with 4 line but not 5

Postby Herman » Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:34 pm

The way the canopy has stretched might also change the way the lift forces are loading the LE, if the tips are no longer generating there designed lift there will be less lift to support the pull of the bridle in that area. I don’t think I would spend real money on a kite that is suffering from this age related problem. Playing with the bridle would probably be my limit. Even if I had sowing equipment I doubt that there is any quick fix.

Did the Duotone people have a suggestion what might be the cause of the problem?

Sean7210
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Re: flared tips on dice with 4 line but not 5

Postby Sean7210 » Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:31 am

No suggestions for the cause of the problem but yes, they suggested to me that once it happens, there is no solution

I like Dice very much but I.do agree to don't spend such an amount of money for a kite with those problems....very frustrating.

Thanks for the explanations!

supachip1
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Re: flared tips on dice with 4 line but not 5

Postby supachip1 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:32 am

merl wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:18 am
Sounds similar to the annoying problem for 2014 dice where the wingtips develop an S shape...discussed here:

viewtopic.php?p=842255#p842255

I never found a solution. Bought a used 9 that had the problem immediately. Had a 12 and it started to develop the problem after a year or so.
i lost interest in that thread with the 1 dude banging on about how he chucks all bridles away and rides his kite direct connection!! :-?

supachip1
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Re: flared tips on dice with 4 line but not 5

Postby supachip1 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:37 am

PROBLEM FIXED!

i machine washed the bridles a couple of times, they all came back to around 1cm from the stated spec on the tabs, apart from the main pulley lines and 5th, i added an extension for the 5th and made 2 new pulley lines, got to test it yesterday and all good. :D
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Herman (Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:39 am)
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Sean7210
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Re: flared tips on dice with 4 line but not 5

Postby Sean7210 » Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:34 am

ooooook......so simple!!!
when a solution becames a problem (for me)
:-)


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