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Why there are no such kite?

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Re: Why there are no such kite?

Postby drone » Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:11 pm

Kite in the picture are in dopower mode, powered looks like ordinary kite. This is prototype for cargoships. Suposed to start/land from deck.
PL ARCs are outdated, with poor depower and drift for hydrofoil.
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Re: Why there are no such kite?

Postby sarc » Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:00 pm

As I remember the Seasmik (or something like that) kites in the picture had very poor performance and was never a viable product.
Bruno Leigagneux (too lazy to check correct spelling) high pressure kite had similar autozenith characteristics.
I used to have Peter Lynn Arc and Venom and really liked them but the autozenith was just a convenience, did not really add or subtract much from actual riding. Had a great time on both kites!
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Re: Why there are no such kite?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:41 pm

I had used the Seasmik back in the days.

Found it pretty un-usable...
Back then at least.

It might have had almost infinite top end, but was almost impossible to use for kitesurfing.

Didnt feel right, not easy, no balanced performance, and absolutely no power unless it was howling :wink:

8) Peter
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Re: Why there are no such kite?

Postby Onda » Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:54 pm

That kite in the picture looks like a conventional (old, outdated) kitesurfing kite which has been turned inside-out after a relaunch that went wrong.

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Re: Why there are no such kite?

Postby skyte » Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:37 pm

one problem with auto zenith is if you have an accident and lose consciousness the kite keeps flying instead of crashing. This happened once at one of our local spots where the rider was dragged unconscious across the beach after a wipeout.

This can still happen with a conventional kite in a death loop situation and it's not like it happened to every Peter Lynn Venom flyer but I think it's still better not to have auto zenith.
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Re: Why there are no such kite?

Postby kitexpert » Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:15 pm

skyte wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:37 pm
one problem with auto zenith is if you have an accident and lose consciousness the kite keeps flying instead of crashing. This happened once at one of our local spots where the rider was dragged unconscious across the beach after a wipeout.

This can still happen with a conventional kite in a death loop situation and it's not like it happened to every Peter Lynn Venom flyer but I think it's still better not to have auto zenith.
When auto zenithing PL kite is at the zenit, then it doesn't have almost any sideways pull. It is also quite depowered because bar is sheeted fully out. I'd see that quite safe option when kite pulls you slightly up: you possibly not drown if unconscious and if you have some other problem you don't have to worry about kite.

For other kiters auto-zenithing kite can be an obstacle, difficult to pass upwind side. Rider itself has to steer all the time a bit against auto-zenith, this can be annoying.

I used some arcs for some years and I also made one (which was much more difficult project than you could think). Problem of these kites is a bit challenging way how they give pull and they also don't have that precise feel of LEI kites. They jellyfish, give a short power spike and after that are weak until you get speed on. With some speed you can sheet in as much as you can, kite opens its wingtips and straightens its deep C-shape a bit and gives huge amount of pull. I guess you can't make it backstall.

Small sizes of these are fast and aggressive kites. Big sizes are quite slow (but faster turning than bridled kites) but they lose in power bit too much. There was huge sizes up to 24m but even then smaller foil kites and even LEI's were stronger
Last edited by kitexpert on Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why there are no such kite?

Postby RRC1962 » Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:55 pm

Bille wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:20 pm
Peter Lynn Venom ; I have 3 of them, (10m , 16m , 19m).
Instead of landing it , to eat lunch at Mohave ; I would
just hook it to my bumper and let it fly, and it was always
where i left it when ready to go back out on the water.

Bille
My old Flexi kites were like that. I could hook them to a anchor or boat cleat and they would just stay there as long as there was wind. They would bounce around in gusts but always return to stable. Not as maneuverable and no depower on demand like todays kites, but way more stable. Still had safety QR which worked about the same as todays kites, just not the huge depower range in the bar travel.

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Re: Why there are no such kite?

Postby skyte » Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:31 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:15 pm

When auto zenithing PL kite is at the zenit, then it doesn't have almost any sideways pull. It is also quite depowered because bar is sheeted fully out. I'd see that quite safe option when kite pulls you slightly up: you possibly not drown if unconscious and if you have some other problem you don't have to worry about kite.
Maybe in some situations it would be better, but imagine you have a big wipeout in an overpowered situation... so a big squall comes through and you get knocked unconscious. The auto zenith kite doesn't gently drift back to 12 o'clock; it keeps flying while it tries to get back to 12 o'clock and this can mean the rider get's tea bagged and lofted downwind until things become stable or someone grabs the unconscious rider. It happened twice on 2 separate beaches here and both were serious accidents. One could have been fatal but there was a fireman and lifeguard there off duty who saved the rider and the other occasion ended up being fatal I think.

This could still happen on any LEI though. Squalls are dangerous! The auto zenith feature is not the cause but in some circumstances it doesn't help.

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Re: Why there are no such kite?

Postby Bille » Tue Sep 13, 2022 6:44 pm

Windwarrior wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:58 pm
Drop it...go for a swim! That´s why!
Not sure why you would say that ; it's a completely false rummer ! :nono:

A Venom is rather Easy, to relaunch .

I agree that autozenith , could be dangerous ; in some circumstances .

Bille

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Re: Why there are no such kite?

Postby cor » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:26 pm

SolarSet wrote:
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:23 pm
you clearly still drive a car w manual gearbox, "why would someone want a machine to change gear automatically where there is some much joy in pressing clutch"
I don´t drive a manual and your comparison is utterly stupid. A gearbox is not a safety concern, but a kite with autozenith could be for many reasons as many others in this thread already pointed out. Also, so far, no one in this thread mentioned any significant advantages in having autozenith that is worth taking the added risk, at least in my opinion.
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