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Random thoughts: Any reason you couldn't use latex sealant instead of a bladder?

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RoguePanda
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Random thoughts: Any reason you couldn't use latex sealant instead of a bladder?

Postby RoguePanda » Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:57 pm

Ok, so I’ve got through Blue Monday and a random thought came into my noggin…
Instead of a bladder could kite leading edge/struts be sealed with latex sealant (similar to the tubeless mountain bike tyres)?
Or is that a completely stupid idea and I should have drunk more coffee before posting?
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Re: Random thoughts: Any reason you couldn’t use latex sealant instead of a bladder?

Postby Windigo1 » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:19 pm

I don't think that will work. Struts are just fabric that is strong enough to hold the bladder pushing against it but they are not water tight or air tight I'm pretty sure it will all leak out without the bladder. This would also be heavier. How would you get air in? install a valve on the fabric?

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Re: Random thoughts: Any reason you couldn’t use latex sealant instead of a bladder?

Postby RoguePanda » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:37 pm

I realise the material isn’t sealed, but thats the point. If the valve was part of the fabric and you poured in some latex solution and then inflated, the sealant would be forced out of the leaks thereby sealing them.I suppose my question hinges on just how leaky they are and how much sealant you’d have to add. If you have a puncture then you just stick a couple of mls of sealant in, inflate the strut and the sealant should find the leak. Downside would be having liquid sealant inside the kite changing flying characteristics, but I’m sure that could be minimised.

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Re: Random thoughts: Any reason you couldn’t use latex sealant instead of a bladder?

Postby Greenturtle » Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:50 pm

Bladderless is the future.
The material would have to be designed around the concept, probably wouldn’t work for long if just applied a sealant to dacron.

It would not need to be heavier to work. In fact the whole idea would be to decrease weight, and increase durability. 90% of whitewater inflatables in use today are bladderless, glued or welded seams, and are super tough. Like inflated basketball hard and 8 people bouncing up and down on top of a sharp rock tough. Scale this down to a light weight appropriate for kites, no need for the super durable rubberized outer coatings for intense abrasion resistance, just focus on the airtight quality with minor abrasion resistance. And there you will have the future kite material. The valve is the least of the worries. Look how raft valves are installed, mechanical clamp from both sides. Aluula will do it first, my prediction. Make the material airtight and glue or weld the seams depending on the final choice of coatings. The factories that make kite being set up to sew not glue/weld is a hurdle here for sure. But it certainly is possible, and is a logical next step to take to reduce weight and push lei construction into the FuTuRe!

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Re: Random thoughts: Any reason you couldn't use latex sealant instead of a bladder?

Postby Joostio » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:18 pm

If we start welding the leading edge closed as suggested it will really impact the repair options. I suppose new building processes will require new repair processes.
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Re: Random thoughts: Any reason you couldn't use latex sealant instead of a bladder?

Postby soeren76 » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:34 pm

Tubeless sealant / latex sealant ususally works best when you do not inflate/deflate things often. It will basically fill up the valve and make it not function. It may find it 's way in to repair kits but I do not expect to see it in kites.

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Re: Random thoughts: Any reason you couldn't use latex sealant instead of a bladder?

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:37 pm

All the latex sealant is going to leak out of the valve every time you deflate and try and roll the kite up? You'll be refilling it with sealant every few sessions. Sounds expensive.

It would be interesting to see the practical weight difference though. How much treatment would be needed in terms of weight to plug all the needle holes vs the weight of a bladder.

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Re: Random thoughts: Any reason you couldn't use latex sealant instead of a bladder?

Postby RoguePanda » Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:30 pm

Good points on the inflate/deflate! I think that would be an issue, though if you could do a ‘one time sealing’ and remove any excess sealant it might work. I may give it a try on an old kite just for shits and giggles….

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Re: Random thoughts: Any reason you couldn't use latex sealant instead of a bladder?

Postby edt » Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:59 pm

RoguePanda wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:57 pm
Ok, so I’ve got through Blue Monday and a random thought came into my noggin…
Instead of a bladder could kite leading edge/struts be sealed with latex sealant (similar to the tubeless mountain bike tyres)?
Or is that a completely stupid idea and I should have drunk more coffee before posting?
Cheers!
Ps I’m normally a lurker here, but thanks Toby as this is the most awesome kitesurf information resource I’ve found on the web!
Excellent idea. Don't listen to the haters. The problem with great ideas of course is that they are a dime a dozen and like Edison said, "Genius is 1 percent inspiration and 99 percent persperation."

Now to make that idea work you have to start making prototypes, obtain several full sized kites, figure out the best way to repair various types of holes and damage. Great ideas need more than just the idea they need hard work. But i love the idea. Very good. Don't listen to the haters, it's a good idea.
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Re: Random thoughts: Any reason you couldn't use latex sealant instead of a bladder?

Postby Greenturtle » Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:32 pm

Joostio wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:18 pm
If we start welding the leading edge closed as suggested it will really impact the repair options. I suppose new building processes will require new repair processes.
The repair would be a glued on patch that the user of the kite can easily do while on vacation. This can be as strong as original if the surfaces are engineered with this in mind. As it is in other marine applications such as hypalon boat inflatable tubes. There will be a coating on this future kite material that is compatible with a super strong glue to not only maximize the performance of your sessions but also gets you back on the water in no time after an encounter with the reef.


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