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Penta TX = Apex?

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droffats
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Penta TX = Apex?

Postby droffats » Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:38 pm

Is Duotone's Penta TX the same thing as Cabrinha's Apex with another name?

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Re: Penta TX = Apex?

Postby rnelias » Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:35 pm

It seems PentaTX is the same fabric named by Elev8 as DyneaTex

I've read about it. I'm trying to find where and will update when I find.

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Re: Penta TX = Apex?

Postby purdyd » Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:07 pm

I believe dyneatex from eleveight is hookipa cloth by challenge sailcloth

Cabrinha ultra ht seems very similar to duotone penta tx which is I believe made by challenge sailcloth

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Re: Penta TX = Apex?

Postby vakiter » Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:26 am

Kind of sad the marketing is so dumb
I would much prefer the brand just say what it is.
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Re: Penta TX = Apex?

Postby suisd12 » Sun Feb 04, 2024 3:48 am

Penta tx is indeed made by challenge

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Re: Penta TX = Apex?

Postby kitexpert » Sun Feb 04, 2024 4:45 pm

DT says in its site PentaTX has up to "5x higher tear resistance". That may be true but compared to what?

Aluula web site has a diagram in which PentaTX has slightly less tensile strength than usual 160g dacron. My experience is about same, I've already seen too many exploded PentaTX LE's.

And because that material is not only lighter but thinner than traditional LE material it is under higher stress when LE is inflated.

You can wonder if it is a good idea to make very thick LE from thin material and inflate it to 8 psi :roll:

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Re: Penta TX = Apex?

Postby purdyd » Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:40 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2024 4:45 pm
DT says in its site PentaTX has up to "5x higher tear resistance". That may be true but compared to what?

Aluula web site has a diagram in which PentaTX has slightly less tensile strength than usual 160g dacron. My experience is about same, I've already seen too many exploded PentaTX LE's.

And because that material is not only lighter but thinner than traditional LE material it is under higher stress when LE is inflated.

You can wonder if it is a good idea to make very thick LE from thin material and inflate it to 8 psi :roll:
Well the tear resistance is probably in comparison to regular Dacron leading edge material.

Penta tx is lighter so thinner, so yes, higher stress, but that allulla chart is not showing tensile strength in pascals, but force in newtons.

They’ve normalized the numbers across a linear dimension so you are comparing directly say a 5cm swath of each material.

it is showing that the thinner penta tx has roughly the same strength in this linear dimension as the thicker Dacron.

Which is why the strength to weight strength is higher for penta tx versus the heavier Dacron.

One concern I have had for all of these stiffer materials is the amount of impact resistance. Softer material, even though it might not have the same tensile strength may absorb more energy during an impact loading.

https://aluula.com/technology/

Image

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Re: Penta TX = Apex?

Postby kitexpert » Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:04 pm

purdyd wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:40 pm
kitexpert wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2024 4:45 pm
DT says in its site PentaTX has up to "5x higher tear resistance". That may be true but compared to what?

Aluula web site has a diagram in which PentaTX has slightly less tensile strength than usual 160g dacron. My experience is about same, I've already seen too many exploded PentaTX LE's.

And because that material is not only lighter but thinner than traditional LE material it is under higher stress when LE is inflated.

You can wonder if it is a good idea to make very thick LE from thin material and inflate it to 8 psi :roll:
Well the tear resistance is probably in comparison to regular Dacron leading edge material.

Penta tx is lighter so thinner, so yes, higher stress, but that allulla chart is not showing tensile strength in pascals, but force in newtons.

They’ve normalized the numbers across a linear dimension so you are comparing directly say a 5cm swath of each material.

it is showing that the thinner penta tx has roughly the same strength in this linear dimension as the thicker Dacron.

Which is why the strength to weight strength is higher for penta tx versus the heavier Dacron.

One concern I have had for all of these stiffer materials is the amount of impact resistance. Softer material, even though it might not have the same tensile strength may absorb more energy during an impact loading.

https://aluula.com/technology/

Image
When wing/kite explodes to your face what does it help to know LE material has higher strength to weight ratio? Pascals or Newtons, I don't see any difference.

If these things were rationally designed they should be made of stronger (and thicker) materials than before when thick LE's are needed.

I have pieces of PentaTX from blown out equipment and when I stretch it in my hands it don't feel that special, but ok perhaps it is a bit stiffer. However it has become lumpy, fabric is not even anymore. Under inflation pressure PentaTX is more stressed, perhaps this makes it feel stiffer when it is strained closer to its breaking point.

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Re: Penta TX = Apex?

Postby Matty V » Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:51 pm

The funny thing is that In sail cloth world Challenger is the budget/ equivalent of gong option. Yet the kite brands market it as some bespoke unobtanium…

They are laughing at you.

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Re: Penta TX = Apex?

Postby purdyd » Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:20 pm

When wing/kite explodes to your face what does it help to know LE material has higher strength to weight ratio? Pascals or Newtons, I don't see any difference.

If these things were rationally designed they should be made of stronger (and thicker) materials than before when thick LE's are needed.
Newtons are a measure of force,

Pascals are a measure of force per area = Newtons per square meter.

You brought the chart up.

160gsm Dacron and 128gsm penta tx will hold the same amount of force they break. At least in a static loading condition.

You are right the wings have bigger diameters than kites and so there would be a more hoop stress. It is a wonder to me more of them don’t explode.

I suppose wings are where something like aluula makes a tremendous amount of sense because the stiffness allows smaller diameters and the strength is much greater.


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