16 hour Noobie and I am starting to get some consistent rides. Usually fly in gusty conditions. I have found it difficult to maintain constant amount of pull as I am trying to edge. Fall back into the water and get pulled over my board quite often.
Is there a correlation between how hard you edge and kite window location? Is it a matter of constant adjustments?
peace out
-moray
Edging vs Kite Window Location
Don't worry too much about it. The more time you spend on the water, the more you will learn. Your body and mind will learn the feel naturally just by doing. It will get easier and easier with time. I used to complain about the gustiness where I ride. Now I just jump when a gust hits me!
When you feel a lull, start the kite moving and relax your edge. When you feel a gust, sink your edge and stop the kite from moving (preferrably keep it near the water so that you don't get pulled up and off your edge). If the gust is too strong and you are going too fast even edging hard, skid the board sideways for about 1 second and then resume your carving/edging. This will slow you down and force the kite to the edge of the window. You can anticipate the changes in wind strength by the sound and water texture so that you can start these things in advance of the wind changes. After a while, its just like riding a bike - you don't even have to think about it.
Alan
When you feel a lull, start the kite moving and relax your edge. When you feel a gust, sink your edge and stop the kite from moving (preferrably keep it near the water so that you don't get pulled up and off your edge). If the gust is too strong and you are going too fast even edging hard, skid the board sideways for about 1 second and then resume your carving/edging. This will slow you down and force the kite to the edge of the window. You can anticipate the changes in wind strength by the sound and water texture so that you can start these things in advance of the wind changes. After a while, its just like riding a bike - you don't even have to think about it.
Alan
Edge hard and the kite flies to the edge of the flying window. Turn downwind and the kite effectively backs up toward the center of the window.
learning in gusty conditions is hard. Constant adjustments are needed. You need to keep your board speed high enough that you can make it through the lulls but if you go to fast you will get totally overpowered when a gust hits.
For me it helps to look for where the gusts and lulls are on the water and plan what I need to do. If I see a gust comming I slow down by edging and turning upwind and get ready to edge really hard when the gust hits. For the lulls, I turn down wind a little bit to build apparent wind and get ready to sine that kite if I need more power to stay on a plane.
The flying window moves around based on your board speed and the apparent wind it generates, not how hard you edge. Apparent wind also has a big effect on how much power you get out of the kite.
Basically the faster you travel on a downwind course the stronger the apparent wind will become and the window will shift slightly ahead of you. The faster you travel on an upwind course the slower the apparent wind will become and the window will shift slighty behind you.
It can be a little confusing, but keep in mind that knowing how to make the kite move toward the edge of the window or back into the power is much more important than knowing where the window actually is.
You can control the power intuitively by edging hard and turning upwind to slow down when you want less power, and by turning downwind a little when you need more power.
Trent
learning in gusty conditions is hard. Constant adjustments are needed. You need to keep your board speed high enough that you can make it through the lulls but if you go to fast you will get totally overpowered when a gust hits.
For me it helps to look for where the gusts and lulls are on the water and plan what I need to do. If I see a gust comming I slow down by edging and turning upwind and get ready to edge really hard when the gust hits. For the lulls, I turn down wind a little bit to build apparent wind and get ready to sine that kite if I need more power to stay on a plane.
The flying window moves around based on your board speed and the apparent wind it generates, not how hard you edge. Apparent wind also has a big effect on how much power you get out of the kite.
Basically the faster you travel on a downwind course the stronger the apparent wind will become and the window will shift slightly ahead of you. The faster you travel on an upwind course the slower the apparent wind will become and the window will shift slighty behind you.
It can be a little confusing, but keep in mind that knowing how to make the kite move toward the edge of the window or back into the power is much more important than knowing where the window actually is.
You can control the power intuitively by edging hard and turning upwind to slow down when you want less power, and by turning downwind a little when you need more power.
Trent
good imformative posts just one thing to add, this falling backward is caused by pulling on the bar/kite to try to maintain standing up, or to pull yourself up. Remember that you already are hooked to the kite through your harness and pulling with your arms only oversheets the kite and adds nothing to the pull! Swoop your kite with feeling and you'll be standing upright on your board, in on and off wind stay upright on your board and work your edge and your kite without try to lay back against the pull. learn to do this and you will be a better kiter and aquire the feel it takes to handle gusty wind.
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supermaned
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Confused about the term 'apparent wind'. Your definition (Anon) seems counterintuitive. Wouldn't edging upwind increase the apparent wind speed, since you are traveling against it?
Speaking from small experience, it seems it is necessary to move the kite more when flying downwind that when edging upwind in the same session.
Would appreciate any clarification about this conundrum.
Speaking from small experience, it seems it is necessary to move the kite more when flying downwind that when edging upwind in the same session.
Would appreciate any clarification about this conundrum.
That is why I said it can be a little confusing. Apparent wind is a sailing term that also applies to kiteboarding, even more so beause you can reach higher speeds than in sailing. If you have taken any basic physics maybe you remember vectors?
The apparent wind is the vector sum (the vector is speed WITH a direction) of the true wind and the wind that you would feel if you were somehow riding your kiteboard on a windless day. In other words, If the first vetcor is true wind speed with direction, add to it the second vetor which is board speed with the direction equal to opposite of the diretion you are traveling (think of the wind you feel when you ride a bicycle on a calm day).
When you add the vectors, you need to consider both the speed and the direction. You can visualize a vector by drawing a line with an arrowhead on one end, where the legnth of the line represents the speed and the arrow shows the diretion.
Unless you like to do algerbra (which I don't
) the easiest examples are where the direction components are exactly opposite, this way you do not have to calulate the angles to find the "legnth" and direction apparent wind.
Say you are flying in 20 knot winds and you decide to head straight downwind. Since the direction component of the vectors is exactly opposite you can get the apparent wind by subtracting your board speed from the true wind speed. If you travel straight downwind at 10 knots board speed the apparent wind is 20-10=10 knots. When you travel straight downwind at 20 knots the apparent wind becomes 20-20=0 and your kite falls out of the sky.
This is why you need to sine the kite more when you travel more and more on a downwind course. Flying the kite up and down increases the apparent wind that the kite experiences, because the kite is moving faster across the wind than it would if it were just parked in one spot.
On a course slightly downwind of straight across the wind, the vetor diretions are additive so the apparent windspeed is actually somewhat higher than the true wind speed.
Sorry if my explanation is piss poor. My undertanding of physics and algerbra is not so great so my ability to explain suffers. Try a sailing book or do a google seach on "apparent wind"
Here's a link to an "apparent wind calculator" which calulates apparent wind speed and direction based on your own input of true wind, boat speed, and the angle between them:
http://www.sailingusa.info/true_wind_calculator.htm
The page demonstrates it well. You can enter different angles for the same boat speed and true wind speed and see what the apparent wind will be and it's direction. The angle actually indiates how much the center of the wind window moves from where it would be if you were not moving at all.
Make sure you use the "apparent wind calculator" and not the "true wind calulator" It opens a new page where the results are displayed at the very top of the page.
The apparent wind is the vector sum (the vector is speed WITH a direction) of the true wind and the wind that you would feel if you were somehow riding your kiteboard on a windless day. In other words, If the first vetcor is true wind speed with direction, add to it the second vetor which is board speed with the direction equal to opposite of the diretion you are traveling (think of the wind you feel when you ride a bicycle on a calm day).
When you add the vectors, you need to consider both the speed and the direction. You can visualize a vector by drawing a line with an arrowhead on one end, where the legnth of the line represents the speed and the arrow shows the diretion.
Unless you like to do algerbra (which I don't
) the easiest examples are where the direction components are exactly opposite, this way you do not have to calulate the angles to find the "legnth" and direction apparent wind. Say you are flying in 20 knot winds and you decide to head straight downwind. Since the direction component of the vectors is exactly opposite you can get the apparent wind by subtracting your board speed from the true wind speed. If you travel straight downwind at 10 knots board speed the apparent wind is 20-10=10 knots. When you travel straight downwind at 20 knots the apparent wind becomes 20-20=0 and your kite falls out of the sky.
This is why you need to sine the kite more when you travel more and more on a downwind course. Flying the kite up and down increases the apparent wind that the kite experiences, because the kite is moving faster across the wind than it would if it were just parked in one spot.
On a course slightly downwind of straight across the wind, the vetor diretions are additive so the apparent windspeed is actually somewhat higher than the true wind speed.
Sorry if my explanation is piss poor. My undertanding of physics and algerbra is not so great so my ability to explain suffers. Try a sailing book or do a google seach on "apparent wind"
Here's a link to an "apparent wind calculator" which calulates apparent wind speed and direction based on your own input of true wind, boat speed, and the angle between them:
http://www.sailingusa.info/true_wind_calculator.htm
The page demonstrates it well. You can enter different angles for the same boat speed and true wind speed and see what the apparent wind will be and it's direction. The angle actually indiates how much the center of the wind window moves from where it would be if you were not moving at all.
Make sure you use the "apparent wind calculator" and not the "true wind calulator" It opens a new page where the results are displayed at the very top of the page.
On 2002-11-12 20:05, supermaned wrote:
Confused about the term 'apparent wind'. Your definition (Anon) seems counterintuitive. Wouldn't edging upwind increase the apparent wind speed, since you are traveling against it?
Speaking from small experience, it seems it is necessary to move the kite more when flying downwind that when edging upwind in the same session.
Would appreciate any clarification about this conundrum.
I skiped the long post and also hold no advanced degrees,but i was thinking about feeling power so i'll just throw this out and see what you think, its about resistance and who carry's the load. like a boat at anchor when the boat pulls the anchor gets the load the more the boat pulls the more load the anchor gets until it brecks loose, then no resistance so no load the force is still there but no one resists so no one carrys, same in kiting up wind = resist, down wind = drift, the wind is still blowing but no one gets/resists the load. hows that?
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