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Additive F, xylene?

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downunder
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Additive F, xylene?

Postby downunder » Mon Aug 08, 2016 3:55 am

Hi guys

Looks like RR Additive F is impossible to buy in AU. However, some reports saying 85% xylene based, hence a question:

- did anyone tried xylene and epoxies, specially Entropy CLR?
- is it worth my time (and health), in a search for almost perfect finish?
- or shall I stick with a 'hot coat', spending heaps of my time for a semi decent result?

Cheers

D.

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Re: Additive F, xylene?

Postby BWD » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:13 am

It's basically paraffin wax in xylene but may have some small amount of other solvents or dispersants to help the wax get evenly to the surface.
Apparently as an alternative one can also use the styrene based surfacing agent for polyester resin with epoxy as well, so long as any EPS/XPS in the build is sealed away from it, since it will dissolve those foams.

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Re: Additive F, xylene?

Postby tkettlepoint » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:34 pm

additive f isn't a saver for perfect finish always... I personal have had it cloud more then once. but then have had good luck with it 96% of the time. why I don't know maybe moisture content in the air way to high the day I did my hot coat,

terrie

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Re: Additive F, xylene?

Postby TomW » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:19 pm

I'm still learning which materials work best for me. I used a different product for two boards that was " coating resin" from easycomposites in UK. . There is amine blush buts it's easy to wash off with soap and warm water and scrub sponge. Polished out nice. ( orange board). Then I made a board with the RR and additive F. Lamination was easier. It flows out better than EL 2 from Ez. But gloss coat ended up looking like resin had 0,5 mm crystals on the surface after polishing. I could not figure it out. It was smooth, but it had these weird crystal effect. I wondered if it was a reaction with the Polish compound, or the Additive F caused it. The bottom I sanded to 800 and turned out flawless. ( white board.) you can see crystal effect over black logo.
So my next series of boards I am using the the Ez EL2 and a new coating epoxy they have that's supposed to be better than last year's. I'll use up the RR on some SUP or other project for myself.
RR was like 50% more expensive too..
I'm working in temp controlled shop. clean and working carefully and methodically. Taking lab notes.
Tricks I read about, and use successfully for final gloss coat. Clean up board, blow off and wipe with dna, tape off rail as needed.
Blow off board W compressed air. Wipe with Denatured alcohol ( dna)
Blow off. Wipe again, blow off. Do not touch with bare hands.
Use small emount epoxy ( 60 gr for 5-0 board) and scrape it on then all off board into cup to dump it. Then pour on gloss coat, brush out diagonally x2, lengthwise. Let sit 3-4 min. Hit with hot air gun on low about 20 cm from board, sweep it along, don't stop. Small air bubbles rise to surface and pop, Resin flows more. Wait 5 min, repeat air gun, wait 5 min, repeat airgun if needed.
If you get any fish eye, you can rub it with clean gloved finger add a dot of epoxy and air gun it.
Leave Shop.
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tkettlepoint
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Re: Additive F, xylene?

Postby tkettlepoint » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:40 pm

tom I noticed that too on the last 2 boards I did... little crystals on it... I m not sure why neither... I was thinking it was going off too fast and pulling it. not sure why... if the next one does it will try to take pictures of it and share here

terrie

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Re: Additive F, xylene?

Postby BWD » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:01 pm

Are these crystals in RR KK or one of the other resins? Just curious...
Fwiw I have had ok results with RR 2000 glossing with fairly warm (~80-90 F) resin with a little DNA or xylene added as well as add F to total about 5% of mix.

Another finish you can do that looks ok for some boards is the ghetto wipe - wipe sanded board with a rag or even paper towel soaked in epoxy diluted to runny consistency with DNA. Results not always ghetto but never perfect either...

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Re: Additive F, xylene?

Postby TomW » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:40 pm

BWD, the crystal effect is from RR epoxy with additive F in final clear coat. I was really disappointed, RR resin gets so much hype on Swaylocks. No one could say what problem was on sways. That said, I never contacted RR. I is probably my error or a reaction with something else that I'm using. Getting the materials nailed is a major part of the magic, takes time, money, experience and methodology. Fun stuff, wish I could do it full time.

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Re: Additive F, xylene?

Postby TomW » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:49 pm

tkettlepoint wrote:tom I noticed that too on the last 2 boards I did... little crystals on it... I m not sure why neither... I was thinking it was going off too fast and pulling it. not sure why... if the next one does it will try to take pictures of it and share here

terrie
Really!!? now that is interesting, same problem. What do the scientists call that? what do you mean, "going off too fast and pulling it". My final coat is not going off too fast. I have 2 hypothesis :
1. I used a hot air gun to pop bubbles and flow it out, thus caused additive F to crystallize or do something weird. ( I'm not a chemist, just a brain damaged designer) .
2. My polishing compounds, i used 2 different, are not compatible with the epoxy and caused some reaction with epoxy. ( but worked great with the other epoxy from EZ)

Buff and polishing compounds I used are from surfboard materials supplier in France, said to be epoxy compatible. I need to find new source and test them out....any tips?

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Re: Additive F, xylene?

Postby tkettlepoint » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:56 pm

going off to fast and pulling... the skin of the epoxy is setting to fast and pulling making he crystals . I use a torch to flash off the bubbles... I find it works better then the hot air gun.

the buffing compounds I use are for automotive and the boat industry

I seen them before I even sanded out the hot coat and buffed it out

terrie

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Re: Additive F, xylene?

Postby BWD » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:15 pm

There is some hype, true. Nothing is magic though, to my knowledge. Could it be that the add f evaporated a bit too much and the wax is not fully dispersed? "Crystals" could be from excess wax maybe?
Of course normally crystals form in epoxy only from sitting long time at low temp, and these crystals can be dissolved by warming the epoxy, so this is strange... I think I have seen bad finish with add f that is old and thus doesn't really fully dissolve the wax. Maybe this is like your experiences.


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