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Pocket board building

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direnc
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Re: Pocket board building

Postby direnc » Wed May 27, 2020 12:21 pm

kollac wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:15 pm
direnc wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 8:44 am
I attempted peelply finish without vacuum on top of the board as mentioned on this thread, but got these bubbles. I ironed the peelply beforehand. What causes these? Possible to eliminate these without vacuum?
These are bubbles between the peel ply and glass, but not necessarily glass and the board core, right?

Glass pros - would rolling the peel ply down initially when it's all wet have prevented this? Could it be outgassing that lifted the peel ply?
No, the bubble are between glass an peelply. I put peelply on on the board over a cured and sanded hotcoat.

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Re: Pocket board building

Postby bay surfer » Wed May 27, 2020 5:48 pm

I attempted peelply finish without vacuum on top of the board as mentioned on this thread, but got these bubbles. I ironed the peelply beforehand. What causes these? Possible to eliminate these without vacuum?
Hand layup air bubbles are a problem, You can use a Heat gun to remove a majority of bubbles, use the heat gun over time, multiple times till the epoxy is set, like 11/2 to 2 hrs. Why were you even using peelply?

kriskris
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Re: Pocket board building

Postby kriskris » Wed May 27, 2020 9:55 pm

Gentelmen. I also want to build small travel pocket board. After reading numerous posts I want to build foam strapless board (with 20 kg/m3 foam and Carbon)
I have at my disposal CF 11 oz. cloth. No stringers just foam core with cedar wood box for foil attachement. What do you recommend as far as Lay up with this particular carbon fabric? I will use vacuum bag most likely in 2 step process I guess?

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Re: Pocket board building

Postby TomW » Thu May 28, 2020 9:03 pm

direnc wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:21 pm
kollac wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:15 pm
direnc wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 8:44 am
I attempted peelply finish without vacuum on top of the board as mentioned on this thread, but got these bubbles. I ironed the peelply beforehand. What causes these? Possible to eliminate these without vacuum?
These are bubbles between the peel ply and glass, but not necessarily glass and the board core, right?

Glass pros - would rolling the peel ply down initially when it's all wet have prevented this? Could it be outgassing that lifted the peel ply?
No, the bubble are between glass an peelply. I put peelply on on the board over a cured and sanded hotcoat.
Did those bubbles develop as it cured? Then you have pinhole outgassing.
If they were there from beginning, you have not stretched out and squeegeed it down, or you have some contamination.
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TomW
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Re: Pocket board building

Postby TomW » Thu May 28, 2020 9:23 pm

kriskris wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 9:55 pm
Gentelmen. I also want to build small travel pocket board. After reading numerous posts I want to build foam strapless board (with 20 kg/m3 foam and Carbon)
I have at my disposal CF 11 oz. cloth. No stringers just foam core with cedar wood box for foil attachement. What do you recommend as far as Lay up with this particular carbon fabric? I will use vacuum bag most likely in 2 step process I guess?
That's about 300g/m2.
You didn't say if it was plain, twill, biax or unidirectional. You didn't say how thick the shape will be.
20kg foam is very light. You have 2 challenges.
1. Compression strength on deck to avoid dents from feet and bar banging on deck. So I would use 2 layers on deck rail wrapped and a 3rd as 3/4 deck patch. If you are 90+ kg, I'd add a 4th deck patch.
2. Longitudinal beam strength and stiffness. A shape that is 40mm thick is 4x as stiff as a 20mm shape. Lets say you keep it a bit thicker at 30mm. You'll need 2 full layers on the bottom and a 3 and 4th layer 3/4 and 1/2 length from tail. Your cedar wood box should extend forward from mast plate 100mm and best it front edge is in pointed V. Your wood box needs to go from deck to bottom all the way through.

If you can get 40-80 kg foam you can cut back on laminate thicknesses by at least one layer. Generally that's cheaper than using expensive carbon to build extra thickness. With 80 kg, you could use one layer and another 1/2 length layer deck and bottom for strength.
Another cheaper way is to use some glass as compression strength. It won't add any or little stiffness or longitudinal strength due to carbon failing first before you reach glass tensile limits. ( this is a bit complicated to explain, but if you want to geek out , you can Google around and find the detailed explanation).
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direnc
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Re: Pocket board building

Postby direnc » Thu May 28, 2020 9:47 pm

TomW wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 9:03 pm
direnc wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:21 pm
kollac wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 12:15 pm


These are bubbles between the peel ply and glass, but not necessarily glass and the board core, right?

Glass pros - would rolling the peel ply down initially when it's all wet have prevented this? Could it be outgassing that lifted the peel ply?
No, the bubble are between glass an peelply. I put peelply on on the board over a cured and sanded hotcoat.
Did those bubbles develop as it cured? Then you have pinhole outgassing.
If they were there from beginning, you have not stretched out and squeegeed it down, or you have some contamination.
Those bubbles developed as it cured. First two hours or so, there were no bubbles, and I went to bed. In the morning I was greeted with bubbles:(
What do you mean by outgassing? There are are holes in the layup that reach the core? It has a layer of 200g glass, and a layer of hotcoat over it... and still pinholes?

kriskris
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Re: Pocket board building

Postby kriskris » Fri May 29, 2020 12:41 am

I am 74 kg. The boards thickness will be approximately 2.5 to 3 inch or around 5 to 7.5 cm to accomodate nose scoopo . I want the deck to be completely flat so the tail is going to be pretty fat and nose will thinned out to get the front scoop/rocker. I have 11.8 OZ. which is about 350 gram/meter square carbon fabric in twill weave. I just want to use what I already have and that is why I am trying to work with this fabric and 20kg/meter cube foam and cedar lumber. Also I want the board to be "travel short" about 32 to 36 inch no longer than my mast which is 91 cm. Tom W what do you mean by "poited V" for box? Thanks again for all info!

kriskris
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Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:32 am
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Location: Satellite Beach, FL
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Re: Pocket board building

Postby kriskris » Fri May 29, 2020 12:47 am

BTW I understand how beam works and I how stifness increases exponentially with Cube of the thickness. I have a decent grasp of how composites work and physics/mechanics in general. I just do not have a practical experience with board building so any advice from seasoned builder is greatly appreciated!

TomW
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Re: Pocket board building

Postby TomW » Fri May 29, 2020 6:44 pm

kriskris wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:41 am
I am 74 kg. The boards thickness will be approximately 2.5 to 3 inch or around 5 to 7.5 cm to accomodate nose scoopo . I want the deck to be completely flat so the tail is going to be pretty fat and nose will thinned out to get the front scoop/rocker. I have 11.8 OZ. which is about 350 gram/meter square carbon fabric in twill weave. I just want to use what I already have and that is why I am trying to work with this fabric and 20kg/meter cube foam and cedar lumber. Also I want the board to be "travel short" about 32 to 36 inch no longer than my mast which is 91 cm. Tom W what do you mean by "poited V" for box? Thanks again for all info!
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direnc
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Re: Pocket board building

Postby direnc » Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:51 am

Here are the boards completed.
123x46cm 26mm thick weighs 3450g
135x47cm 24mm thick weighs 3750g
137x48 cm 36mm thick weighs 3990g
Attachments
64308DFB-06FD-4AB6-B14C-D05E133781B4.jpeg
E81968F4-3636-491D-880E-58E0DA608409.jpeg
731649B2-901A-4B03-8F0C-0CB10F35A446.jpeg
D0C8224D-30DB-4907-A1EA-DDA6803A04F3.jpeg


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