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How can I attach a stopperball in front line?

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kite_hh
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How can I attach a stopperball in front line?

Postby kite_hh » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:09 am

I thought about using a simple knot but that would reduce the breaking load seriously.

Then I thought about splicing two loops and connect them. Cabrinha does that. Does that further reduce the breaking load?

Last thought is to use a whipping to keep the stopperball in place.

How do (your) quad bars deal with this?

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Re: How can I attach a stopperball in front line?

Postby revhed » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:25 pm

Sleeve your top line, tightest fit possible.
Pass sleeved LOOP thru plastic stopper ball hole, again tightest fit possible.
Then thread one end of line thru loop.
You may have to "test" length of sleeve to get correct.
This has advantage of adjustability and NO knot!
One could think it could slide under great load but even wet never encountered this!
If you find flag out length that you like and do not trust knotless system can tie knot in sleeved loop and insert into stopped ball to keep clean
Of course you will have to get your top power lines the same length.
R H
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Re: How can I attach a stopperball in front line?

Postby evan » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:21 pm

Any pictures revhed?

Loop-loop connection with bare splices is strong enough, unless you use less than 200DaN power lines.

You can also use Ozone's method: double overhand knot in a separate piece of line where you put the power line through and then bury the loose ends in the power line.


Made a tutorial for a client that managed to undo that stopper knot because he was thinking that it didn't belong there and compromised the strength:

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?stor ... 8798177853
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Re: How can I attach a stopperball in front line?

Postby kite_hh » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:34 pm

@revhed: I am afraid I do not understand your approach. Could you elaborate?

@evan: OK, the loop loop would be my intuitive approach (A1). Glad to hear the load capacity should be ok.

The ozone approach (A2) seems pretty elegant to me. The only challenge may be to find the exact correct location of the stopper knot in the single Frontline safety. Also I would need to integrate some kind of bungee in this single frontline safety to account for possible depower/trimming option.

A third approach (A3) would be to make both powerlines exactly symmetrical and attached to the depower/trimming option, hence making it easier to build. The safety would be a line that is fixed (about) halfway on one of the power lines. This has the advantage of no need for a stopper ball and no knot in the safety line so nothing can get tangled. I would just need to find a way to safely attach this line to the powerline.

Any suggestions which method is superior? Or is it a matter of personal preference and ability? :-)

Edit: I attached a picture to hopefully make those three approaches better comprehensible..
Attachments
Unbenannt.JPG

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Re: How can I attach a stopperball in front line?

Postby edt » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:08 am

I strongly suggest against a knot because it weakens the line so much and even worse can catch on the bar when you pull the QR. Of course you can avoid the problem with line strength if you grab some sleeving and tie a knot using sleeving that will greatly reduce the strength loss. Best is some sort of splicing, and then loop to loop connection. Wear of the line that goes through the bar is immense and if you use regular kite line there it will wear out in a few sessions. You want 2 or 3 mm line about the same as leader line, so your section below the stopper ball lasts more than a session or two.

Image

The red line is my flag out line, loop connected as in the ozone fashion it's thicker than kite line, usually 3mm or so. The white block is used instead of a red stopper ball, contains 4 holes, 2mm on one side, 4mm on the other for my kite lines and 4mm for the connector. The green line is my depower and the grey line is my chicken loop line.
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Re: How can I attach a stopperball in front line?

Postby kite_hh » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:41 am

@edt I share your worries about anything that needs to go through the bar in a hurry (i.e. the safety line). That would be one reason for me to use A3, which really has neither a knot nor a loop to loop connection that increases the diameter.

With your white block setup, are you not afraid the safety line might get stuck in it, since it is under constant load? Cabrinha use as special plastic part to make sure that doesn't happen.
Also, do you have a bungee in your safety? Thanks so much!

Edit: Just learned that Cabrinha even had a recall that was exactly aimed at this part ( https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/recall1.png ).

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Re: How can I attach a stopperball in front line?

Postby edt » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:57 am

there's a small hole on one end and a big hole in the other. The red line the safety line can't get through the small end period. It just sits there doing nothing no matter what the load is so it can't get stuck. Of course you have to choose your hole sizes correctly for the line sizes you decide on using. Cabrinha likes to make things way more complicated than it has to be. Ozone likes to use a red stopper ball for no reason I can understand since a simple block does everything their system does, with the stainless steel L and their red stopper ball, just less complicated. I sometimes use a nylon 1 inch by 1 inch block sometimes I use aluminum. Aluminum is heavier but easier to work than nylon. The above block is basically the same sort of system that all modern swivels, control bars with their red balls, bungees and such use just simplified down to its basics. I sometimes use a bungee, but not usually, because I almost never use more than 1 or 2 inches of trim so it's not that useful to me. If you are using above the bar trim don't forget to make a line guide of some sort so your safety line doesn't get stuck in the cleat, I used a stainless steel O ring in the above example.
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Re: How can I attach a stopperball in front line?

Postby kite_hh » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:05 am

I understand the holes im the white block are so snug on the top part and the difference in line strength between safety and power line is substantial enough that the above isn't a problem.

Thanks for clarifying!

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Re: How can I attach a stopperball in front line?

Postby edt » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:18 am

Most people who build control bars don't actually build that white block like I do they just buy the part from ozone or naish or wherever. I would just buy the ozone part if you are lazy I think it's only $20 so it's cheap and does the job, but I prefer fabricating it myself. I don't like having that extra red stopper ball just one more part to loose for me. You probably don't want to copy what Cabrinha is doing it's way too complicated.

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Re: How can I attach a stopperball in front line?

Postby kite_hh » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:44 am

Which part do you mean? I couldn't find anything resembling your "white block" in terms of functionality.
IS this the place to look? https://ozonekites.net/products.asp?cat=Parts

Also I am splicing my own lines so diameters won't be standard, which probably calls for an individual solution. :)


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