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Splicing fid doesn't fit

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wavy navy
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Splicing fid doesn't fit

Postby wavy navy » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:23 pm

Hi,
I bought a 5.5mm splicing needle (fid) to get it through s 5.6mm depower rope. It doesn't fit through. It's hard to impossible to get it through. Did I buy the wrong size of the fid?

Herman
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Re: Splicing fid doesn't fit

Postby Herman » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:38 am

Fids are not the same as needles in my book. I do a fair amount of splicing for kite gear and rarely if ever require a fid. In fact you can pretty much do it all with a wire needle, even a homemade wire needle made from an old guitar string!

If you can, swop the fid for a wire needle. Exception might be an extremely long bury where a stiff needle would be useful but that is generally not required for kite rigs.
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kitelife
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Re: Splicing fid doesn't fit

Postby kitelife » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:35 am

wavy navy wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:23 pm
Hi,
I bought a 5.5mm splicing needle (fid) to get it through s 5.6mm depower rope. It doesn't fit through. It's hard to impossible to get it through. Did I buy the wrong size of the fid?
Probably wrong type of rope to splice. Does the rope have a core? Are you trying to splice something like amsteel?

I spliced amsteel with a plastic fid similar to a bic pen but it was a bitch and could only get a couple inches spliced.

wavy navy
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Re: Splicing fid doesn't fit

Postby wavy navy » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:11 am

It's the right type of a deeper rope. I thought it would be easier with a fid. I do a brummel lock splice. Maybe I take it to serious: see here:

The tail that is to be buried needs to be 72 times the diameter of the line. For this example, the line used is 6mm, therefore, 6mm x 72 = 432mm, or 17 inches.

Source: https://www.riggingdoctor.com/life-aboa ... eye-splice

I think that's a long tail. Can I use a shorter one, as this is the hardest part in splicing?

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Re: Splicing fid doesn't fit

Postby Pemba » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:44 am

Herman wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:38 am
Fids are not the same as needles in my book. I do a fair amount of splicing for kite gear and rarely if ever require a fid. In fact you can pretty much do it all with a wire needle, even a homemade wire needle made from an old guitar string!

If you can, swop the fid for a wire needle. Exception might be an extremely long bury where a stiff needle would be useful but that is generally not required for kite rigs.
I've got exactly the same issue, I bought the smallest D-splicer I could find (F-10 ?) to splice kite lines but I don't think it's appropriate, it's still too big. Would you say a home made wire needle is the way to go ?

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Re: Splicing fid doesn't fit

Postby Herman » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:46 am

Bear in mind that the x72 is for obtaining maximum strength from the relevent rope, if the job is for kitesurfing you do not need to achieve anywhere near that of 6mm dyneema. Indeed just the brummel could take the load in question, not that it should!

Personally I do not use a full bury on centre lines but I do taper and stitch and I have not seen a full bury from a kite manufacturer either in this case. You should also proof test of course.

I am assuming 12strand open core dyneema!

Herman
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Re: Splicing fid doesn't fit

Postby Herman » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:54 am

Pemba. I have found wire needles on line now, but my finest needle is still my home made one. I don't remember the note it plays!

If you are talking flying lines they can be tricky particularly if they have been used. They can take a lot of loosening up and I have given up on an old line on occasions.

You need to choose a wire diameter that goes through the core easily but does not escape too easily through the strands.
You can thicken the nose of the needle by a dip in resin and perhaps some judicious sanding but probably not worth the trouble!

I have also found that marlows splicing tape is better than cello tape when twisting up for needle connection. For Flying lines I cut tape down to ~4mm width.
Last edited by Herman on Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
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kitelife
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Re: Splicing fid doesn't fit

Postby kitelife » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:57 am

wavy navy wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:11 am
It's the right type of a deeper rope. I thought it would be easier with a fid. I do a brummel lock splice. Maybe I take it to serious: see here:

The tail that is to be buried needs to be 72 times the diameter of the line. For this example, the line used is 6mm, therefore, 6mm x 72 = 432mm, or 17 inches.

Source: https://www.riggingdoctor.com/life-aboa ... eye-splice

I think that's a long tail. Can I use a shorter one, as this is the hardest part in splicing?
Should match your old depower rope as close as possible to prevent any issues with the quick release (QR) system. The fid section with a larger diameter could jam if too big. It could also cause problems if you stop the fid short and leave too small a diameter. Too small a diameter would leave room for the depower rope and/or flag line to twist and bind and could jam your flag line.

What brand and model bar is this for?
Last edited by kitelife on Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

wavy navy
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Re: Splicing fid doesn't fit

Postby wavy navy » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:59 am

Herman wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:46 am
Bear in mind that the x72 is for obtaining maximum strength from the relevent rope, if the job is for kitesurfing you do not need to achieve anywhere near that of 6mm dyneema. Indeed just the brummel could take the load in question, not that it should!

Personally I do not use a full bury on centre lines but I do taper and stitch and I have not seen a full bury from a kite manufacturer either in this case. You should also proof test of course.

I am assuming 12strand open core dyneema!
Thank you, I doubted already that I need the whole tail! I agree that most kite manufacturers use much less string solutions, so why shouldn't I, especially as I build a foil bar which needs much less power to hold...

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Re: Splicing fid doesn't fit

Postby Pemba » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:03 am

Herman wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:54 am
Pemba. I have found wire needles on line now, but my finest needle is still my home made one. I don't remember the note it plays!

If you are talking flying lines they can be tricky particularly if they have been used. They can take a lot of loosening up and I have given up on an old line on occasions.

You need to choose a wire diameter that goes through the core easily but does not escape too easily through the strands.
You can thicken the nose of the needle by a dip in resin and perhaps some judicious sanding but probably not worth the trouble!

I have also found that marlows splicing tape is better than cello tape when twisting up for needle connection. For Flying lines I cut tape down to ~4mm width.
They are indeed old flying lines. I want to make them into extensions (If it works well, I might buy some new line at some point). The dip in resin is a very good idea, I'll try that, thanks.


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