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Same Line length (Splicing)

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:07 pm
by bb615
Hello all,
maybe already discussed but I didn't find anything using the search...

My question is, how do you proceed in order to have same lengths on lines when you splice on your own?
I'm going to buy some SK99 and would like to know which method is the best to obtain the same length on DIY.

Thank you and sorry for my English.

Re: Same Line length (Splicing)

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:39 pm
by jumptheshark
Pigtails.

Get the home made lines as close as you can when splicing. Fronts generally attach with a knot at the kite end. You can make pigtails with a loop for attaching to the flying line and moveable fig 8 knots on the kite end for perfect tuning. The rears usually attach to the kite with a loop. Its harder to do with the pigtails because they have a loop at both ends. Adding simple overhand knots to one can serve to shorten a double loop pigtail, but most bars allow for some fine tuning or rear lines under the floats at the bar. If the bar has no such rear line tuning option, you can also go without kook proof line attachments by reversing the pigtail at the kite and finish all flying lines with a knot end.

Re: Same Line length (Splicing)

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:31 pm
by Faxie
What worked for me: Measure the splices and use a pencil to mark them. Then splice one side of the lines first, attach the lines to a fixed point and walk them out, get some tension on the lines and mark them at the same length. Then splice the other side. Got my 20m lines within a mm from each other that way.

Re: Same Line length (Splicing)

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:54 pm
by Herman
I do the same as Faxie except I use a Sharpie to mark up. I have been marking dyneema with a Sharpie for a good number of years without problem and so I am guessing there is no significant adverse chemistry going on between the dyneema and marker fluid. However I would be interested to know if any chemist out there has got an opinion on that?

Personally I am happy to use leader line and wear pigtails to compensate for small errors or uneven stretch etc.

Re: Same Line length (Splicing)

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:40 pm
by kitexpert
Herman wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:54 pm
I do the same as Faxie except I use a Sharpie to mark up. I have been marking dyneema with a Sharpie for a good number of years without problem and so I am guessing there is no significant adverse chemistry going on between the dyneema and marker fluid. However I would be interested to know if any chemist out there has got an opinion on that?

Personally I am happy to use leader line and wear pigtails to compensate for small errors or uneven stretch etc.
I'n not a chemist but dyneema is PE which is very resilient material to most solvents, acids and alkalis. Sharpie mark certainly isn't a problem.

Making splices shortens lines a bit, it should be taken account before cutting the line. What is the flying line length per se is a difficult question, for example if back lines are a bit shorter than front lines you can usually pull them hard and make them longer. Only properly pre-stretched lines can be said to have some more or less exact length.

Re: Same Line length (Splicing)

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:45 pm
by edt
when u make a splice you get a sharpie, mark where the bury goes in how big the loop is where it comes out, do the same on all 4 lines, you won't be more than 1cm off. After making the lines tension them and then you can stretch one that is short by a little bit to get them exactly the same, same as when you tune a control bar. If you are splicing a single line to match another line I would use a simple splice that way you can adjust it until it matches exactly before you sew the lock stitches. I've used a sharpie on my lines to mark splices for 10 years never seen it weaken a line.

Re: Same Line length (Splicing)

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:36 pm
by Regis-de-giens
Faxie wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:31 pm
What worked for me: Measure the splices and use a pencil to mark them. Then splice one side of the lines first, attach the lines to a fixed point and walk them out, get some tension on the lines and mark them at the same length. Then splice the other side. Got my 20m lines within a mm from each other that way.
Same for me. Then dyneema loops in between the lines and the kite (and lines//bar as well), so i install the shorter loop to the final longer line for fine balancing.

Re: Same Line length (Splicing)

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:38 am
by Mossy 757
I run out a length of line that is 4x the distance I want the kite away from me. I cut that long segment from the spool and make an eye splice on each end. I then fix those ends together at a fixed point and walk out to where the line doubles back on itself, apply tension at the exact center point with a carabiner, and mark where to cut in the exact center. After I make the cut, I splice an eye on each bitter end. I then repeat the process with each of the two segments, resulting in 4 extremely close lengths of line with one splice and one unspliced end each.

From there, I put all the bitter ends as closely aligned as possible on a piece of doubled over masking tape to secure them evenly to the desk. I then apply more tape over the top to hold them down and measure careful marks along the bitter end of exactly where I'm going to make my splice. Typically for 1.3mm SK99 which is what I use on a foil kite race bar, I'm going for 13-25cm of bury (more on that later).

I find that if you mark them all together and then thin your bury basically the same way, you end up 99.9% of the way there, with maybe minor adjustments to the knot where you attach your lines by the control system in the fine tuning of your individual setup. So basically this way you can free-hand all but the last 4 splices, and then you do those off carefully aligned markings with a sharpie.

For bonus points, you can adjust how long the outside and inside lines are very slightly by adjusting how much you bury. So for example, I'll be super duper over-generous on how much I bury for the center lines, and then be "on-marks" for the rear lines as on the Ozone control bar the center lines are about 3cm shorter than rear lines given my preferred geometry with a flagout system. The more tail you bury inside the line, the shorter the line ends up. You don't want to go crazy here, but it can give you a degree of fine tuning to clip back part of your bury if you find that one line is a bit too short. The rule of thumb is to bury 100x the width of the line, so in my case 1.3mm x 100 = 130mm or 13cm. I do a brummel lock as well and would recommend at least some kind of locking mechanism or whip stitching if none is used.

Re: Same Line length (Splicing)

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:01 am
by jakemoore
Herman wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:54 pm
However I would be interested to know if any chemist out there has got an opinion on that?
A chemist would definitely use a Sharpie as their first choice in kite lines marking.

An optician would choose a wax pencil.

And a tailor would use chalk.

All good options.

Re: Same Line length (Splicing)

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:05 am
by jakemoore
I do the same as Faxie and Herman with the exception that I make my bury longer than it needs to be. I fly the kite lines one time to work the splice tight. Then I pull a small amount out of the shorter line to balance before locking the splice with a stitch or cyanoacrylate glue.