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depower lines and splicing

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MaximumAC
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depower lines and splicing

Postby MaximumAC » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:13 pm

I'm in the process of converting my flysurfer dual strap pull bar to a clam cleat without the FS kit. I'm modeling my work both on the newer Infinity bars with clam cleat but also on the depower line of a race bar I have. Both seem to have dyneema (Amstel blue?) spliced into some other type of line that interacts with the clam cleat. I understand that part of the splicing in the flying sardine race bar is due to the 4:1 pulley system, but having a different type of line spliced in seems to be a common theme. So my questions are, why do they splice in a different line, what lines are ideally used and any advised splicing method? This video seems pretty legit:



Follow up question: if I want to buy a reel of Amsteel for future general use, what's the go-to in terms of type and diameter? Also, here are some pics of what i'm referring to:
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Herman
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Re: depower lines and splicing

Postby Herman » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:17 pm

Why not use a lock instead of a throat whipping if breaking strength is not an issue, might depend on strength of cleating line, but I would be surprised if that were the case.
Shown below without tails burried.
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Re: depower lines and splicing

Postby Herman » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:05 pm

I would be interested to know what is regarded to be the best cleating rope for this purpose?

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Re: depower lines and splicing

Postby edt » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:21 pm

i figured racers always used 3/16ths inch (5mm) dyneema (amsteel blue or equivalent) everywhere just that you sometimes have different colors or sizes because you need it to go through a pulley or cleat. Dyneema is pretty slippery so it doesn't cleat the best, nylon or polyester cleat better but don't wear as long. 4mm (5/32nd) works too. It's vastly overstrength for this app so it's not a problem going smaller.
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MaximumAC
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Re: depower lines and splicing

Postby MaximumAC » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:23 pm

Herman wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:17 pm
Why not use a lock instead of a throat whipping if breaking strength is not an issue, might depend on strength of cleating line, but I would be surprised if that were the case.
Shown below without tails burried.
I have no idea regarding lock vs whipping. I've never even spliced a rope yet. Just looking for advice before I start buying rope and tools to practice before the first attempt at actually making it.

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Re: depower lines and splicing

Postby Herman » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:41 pm

MaximumAC

This is a simple splice but, unusually for kite rigs it takes all the load. Many splices are loops and much of the load is taken by the friction in the larks head or handshake knot. However, your splice does not necessarily need to reach the full strength unless you are a giant but I would still give it a decent length bury. Taper as in the video is important or you will get a wear point as the bar rubs the line.

The splice works like a Chinese finger cuff ( the lines have to have similar physical dimensions ); the throat whipping or lock is just there to hold the splice in place until the load constricts the splice. Personally I would use a lock if I had access to all 4 ends. Throat whipping and stitching if not sufficient rope ends available.

Splicing is not difficult I am sure you will be able to master it. Marlow's Webb site has been a good source of info! Hope somebody is able to answer your specific question.

Regards Herman
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Re: depower lines and splicing

Postby faklord » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:05 pm

I see no need to splice 2 lines together. You can just use one length of dyneema.

As edt points out, braided dyneema “doesn’t cleat the best”. This is partly because it is slippery but also because it squashes flat easily. A remedy to this is to thread a bit of line (eg 2mm) inside the dyneema, over the length that may be cleated. Have a look at an ozone bar (only they use shockcord).

One reason you may want to make a joint between the lines at the cleat is to be able to replace the part that wears quickly (the part that the bar slides up and down). Best way to do this is to splice a loop in the end of each part and join the lines together just below the cleat.
(Have a look at this at about 4.30 as an example https://ozonekites.com/videos/play/clic ... rade-kit-1)

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Re: depower lines and splicing

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:57 pm

Herman wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:17 pm
Why not use a lock instead of a throat whipping if breaking strength is not an issue, might depend on strength of cleating line, but I would be surprised if that were the case.
Shown below without tails burried.
I use the same to connect 2 lines. With a long burry length on each side of the flotaing rope, i think you get a similar breakload as without lock.

Ps: I use this method to connect a 3 metter thicker "pre- line " direct to my light wind lines for more resistance to wear during loops.

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Re: depower lines and splicing

Postby knot_moving » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:15 pm

faklord wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:05 pm
I see no need to splice 2 lines together. You can just use one length of dyneema.

As edt points out, braided dyneema “doesn’t cleat the best”. This is partly because it is slippery but also because it squashes flat easily. A remedy to this is to thread a bit of line (eg 2mm) inside the dyneema, over the length that may be cleated. Have a look at an ozone bar (only they use shockcord).

One reason you may want to make a joint between the lines at the cleat is to be able to replace the part that wears quickly (the part that the bar slides up and down). Best way to do this is to splice a loop in the end of each part and join the lines together just below the cleat.
(Have a look at this at about 4.30 as an example https://ozonekites.com/videos/play/clic ... rade-kit-1)
I've made a couple versions of this, converting 2:1 bars to either 3:1 or 4:1. one length of 5mm worked best. I haven't used a 2mm bury though the cleat part, but that is something I will try.

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MaximumAC
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Re: depower lines and splicing

Postby MaximumAC » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:39 am

Great info all, thanks! I've just completed my first few eye splices and lock-splices. Found using only the D-splicer kinda clunky so i've got some fids on the way...a new obsession is born.

That ozone video is weirding me out with all the bungee action. I understand the bungee on the safety line, but why the trim line? I definitely see the utility of simply using two eye splices to bring the lines together below the cleat though.


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