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rear line adjusters for bar

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merl
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rear line adjusters for bar

Postby merl » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:19 pm

Thinking about a bar with a rear-line adjustment only. Thinking about occasional adjustment on-the-fly. Anyone using made one of these? I guess something involving a prussic knot is the most obvious. I don't think using a splice cleat (not sure what they are actually called) would work well on the rear lines as you need tension to adjust them.

Looks like infexion have some kind of rope pully system (pic below from their facebook page) but I can't can't quite see how it works.
Screenshot 2020-03-10 at 13.56.52.png

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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby BWD » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:51 pm

The infexion kind of system works by being inefficient. If there were pulleys, one side or the other would win. Since the line looks like it just goes through loops of line, it has enough friction to stay put.... this kind of setup can work well but can also be finicky to dial in if friction isnt enough. Looks cool/simple/light though

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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby grigorib » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:11 pm

Kauper has a neat system of rear-line based adjustment

merl
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby merl » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:31 pm

grigorib wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:11 pm
Kauper has a neat system of rear-line based adjustment
Yes, I posted a sketch of that a while back to confirm that I understood how it worked. But for that, you need to work out a good solution for the bar ends, and posts through the bar. I'm thinking of something much simpler.

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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby merl » Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:47 pm

BWD wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:51 pm
The infexion kind of system works by being inefficient. If there were pulleys, one side or the other would win. Since the line looks like it just goes through loops of line, it has enough friction to stay put.... this kind of setup can work well but can also be finicky to dial in if friction isnt enough. Looks cool/simple/light though
Ah - thanks - it must be the same idea as the Zeeko Ultimate bar centre lines - no prussic knots needed then.

From the Zeeko ultimate thread:
download/file.php?id=45756&mode=view

If you have not seen this genius idea before, you adjust by pulling on either of the lines marked T/2 to either lengthen or shorten the total length.

merl
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby merl » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:03 pm

20200310_180153.jpg

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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Tomlutz » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:05 pm

merl wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:31 pm
grigorib wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:11 pm
Kauper has a neat system of rear-line based adjustment
Yes, I posted a sketch of that a while back to confirm that I understood how it worked. But for that, you need to work out a good solution for the bar ends, and posts through the bar. I'm thinking of something much simpler.
I have done it myself with no special tools - and actually it is working quite well.

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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby nixmatters » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:13 pm

Would a tubular elastic sleeve in this section provide sufficient friction so you can use a pulley at the bar end, have sufficient grip in the system and avoid unnecessary line friction?
Can be fixed to the 2 rings so it always wraps well the full length.
Just thinking out loud...
Attachments
IMG_20200310_180812.jpg
IMG_20200310_180812.jpg (64.2 KiB) Viewed 171 times

merl
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby merl » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:21 pm

nixmatters wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:13 pm
Would a tubular elastic sleeve in this section provide sufficient friction so you can use a pulley at the bar end, have sufficient grip in the system and avoid unnecessary line friction?
Can be fixed to the 2 rings so it always wraps well the full length.
Just thinking out loud...
I think the crucial loop is the topmost one. That has to have friction. The others can be pulleys as the forces are balanced. I think...

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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby evan » Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:41 pm

merl wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:47 pm
BWD wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:51 pm
The infexion kind of system works by being inefficient. If there were pulleys, one side or the other would win. Since the line looks like it just goes through loops of line, it has enough friction to stay put.... this kind of setup can work well but can also be finicky to dial in if friction isnt enough. Looks cool/simple/light though
Ah - thanks - it must be the same idea as the Zeeko Ultimate bar centre lines - no prussic knots needed then.

From the Zeeko ultimate thread:
download/file.php?id=45756&mode=view

If you have not seen this genius idea before, you adjust by pulling on either of the lines marked T/2 to either lengthen or shorten the total length.
It indeed works like the Zeeko system, just like on the drwings here. By putting it on the backlines it can be made much thinner and uses less force to operate.

The way I made it on the Infexion bars causes it to slip at around 70DaN of force. Enough to stay put during boosting/megalooping and riding overpowered with an 8m tube kite. You are also still able to grab the leader lines at the height of the backline trim system if you need to.
With this system all parts are outside and easy to inspect without hidden wear-points inside the bar like with other systems. First iteration had a friction ring at the bar, but funny enough the rope on rope loops causes less friction and wear so went for 100% dyneema on the current version.

On my race bars I use it to have some extra backstall on launching and light winds while being able to set the stall point with the cleat-trim on max power on the ideal location during the riding itself depending on kite size and wind strength. Using the cleat to trim between up- and downwind legs.
For freeriding it works easy enough to have it as your main trim system.
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