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rear line adjusters for bar

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jakemoore
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby jakemoore » Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:09 pm

I have used the rope splice cleat. It is a little bit of a hassle to trim with the kite in flight but doable for underpowered HF riding.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:02 am

evan wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:41 pm
merl wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:47 pm
BWD wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:51 pm
The infexion kind of system works by being inefficient. If there were pulleys, one side or the other would win. Since the line looks like it just goes through loops of line, it has enough friction to stay put.... this kind of setup can work well but can also be finicky to dial in if friction isnt enough. Looks cool/simple/light though
Ah - thanks - it must be the same idea as the Zeeko Ultimate bar centre lines - no prussic knots needed then.

From the Zeeko ultimate thread:
download/file.php?id=45756&mode=view

If you have not seen this genius idea before, you adjust by pulling on either of the lines marked T/2 to either lengthen or shorten the total length.
It indeed works like the Zeeko system, just like on the drwings here. By putting it on the backlines it can be made much thinner and uses less force to operate.
For one year now I made this system on my custom bars and it works well as main trim system.
You can see how easy it is to set on the fly here at 0:20.



It costs nothing, very light, inspeccrable and robust. Very easy to set during the ride, even toe side on a hydrofoil.

Only drawbacks are:
- floater not possible
- possible jam of the bar inside the system since no floater
- setting can change without tension, hence before launching the kite (but soooo easy to set after launch.


Interests:
- it is impressive how low you need to pull or push : using just 2 fingers are laaaargely enough.
- No fliating ropes that tangles aroung thexdepower stroke
- cheap and light
- no more trim system in the high load path of front lines

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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby merl » Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:46 pm

Thanks Regis. Looks like you are using plastic eyes (below) and quite thick lines. Are there specific things that work/don't work here?
eyes.jpg
eyes.jpg (20.18 KiB) Viewed 218 times

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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:19 pm

well spoted , yes , for following reasons :
- cheap
-light
- a bit of friction which helps keeping a stable length

Sometines this plastic parts have a "parting plan trace" in the middle due to poor quality, and it needs to be a bit polished if you use pure dyneema, otherwise it can cut some fillaments and avoid a good slip durint trim adjustment ;

Maybe a covered dyneema would also would also work ; even small diameter of dyneema (about 2mm on the video I think) is enough since you need very small pull to adjust it (very very precise and confortable to adjust) ;

A bit of coloured tape help to find the setting point , and see if both Right and left are well balanced and not derived with time.
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merl
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby merl » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:35 pm

Cool - thanks. (Evan suggests that you can make do with loops directly in the dyneema). I will try it out with whatever I can find to hand.

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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed Mar 11, 2020 3:48 pm

yes certainly and even easier ( because one plastic part cannot go through the others during mounting of the system); I was afraid of the wear dyneema / dynemma actually, but never tried ; maybe next time, at least for the one close to the bar.

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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby FLandOBX » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:23 pm

You guys are way ahead of me with your design ideas, so I guess that qualifies me to ask the obvious (dumb?) question. Why would one prefer rear line adjusters over typical front line trim systems? Regis identified one possible reason: high load on front lines vs. less load on rear lines. I suppose the ability to adjust one rear line independently of the other might be an advantage on rare occasions. But are there compelling reasons that would make the rear line system superior to standard front line trim, which appears to accomplish the same thing in terms of kite orientation?

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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby evan » Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:54 pm

FLandOBX wrote:
Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:23 pm
But are there compelling reasons that would make the rear line system superior to standard front line trim, which appears to accomplish the same thing in terms of kite orientation?

It gives you the possibility to have a long bar throw while still having the trim close to you that operates also under tension.

With a cleat/strap above the depower cord you always need to unload the front line tension a bit and lean over the grab the trim if you want a decent length depower cord.
Regis-de-giens wrote: yes certainly and even easier ( because one plastic part cannot go through the others during mounting of the system); I was afraid of the wear dyneema / dynemma actually, but never tried ; maybe next time, at least for the one close to the bar.
if you keep it clear of sand and don't adjust only a few times per session you don't need any sliders/pulleys.

You can use them to lower friction for even easier adjustments, but then it will definitely slip on kites with normal bar pressure and gusty conditions. That's why I settled for only 1.7mm sk99 Dyneema as the best compromise between durability, friction and thickness.
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merl
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby merl » Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:21 pm

@FLandoBX: I've not tested it yet, but what I am after is the lightness and simplicity of trim-free centre lines. In particular, it removes the need for any bungee on a safety line so it greatly cleans up the setup.
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Regis-de-giens
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:03 am

Thanks evan. I think that one other good compromise is to have 2 eyesxon top and one higher friction (-no plastic eyes), at the bottom. That way you have friction under tension but almost no friction during adjustment. I'll test this next time. Ideally, as i trim once orctwice in a session ony, i would like to find a plastic part that hold together the two lines near the bar to freeze it on request and release if i think i'll adjust. A two position device: lock/unlock . I was also thinking of two turns aroung the bottom eye, to be tested...
Cheers


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