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rear line adjusters for bar

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Mikey
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Mikey » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:14 pm

Thinking about a simple lock system...you could use an type of oversize shoelace clamp, blocked with a knot above an below (on the loop line) and sliding on the line that Herman locks off with the half hitch.

Grab the clamp (and squeeze) so free the lines... an push / pull as desired. All one handed :D

Mike

Herman
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Herman » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:47 pm

Mikey

The only place I have got this system is on the brake line of a 3 line fixed bridle kite where I use the system as in the photos, and in my centre lines of a small bar used for my small kites in high wind. The centre line system is spliced and SS rings and 4mm dyneema through a normal chicken loop rotor head. There is no lock on this set up and it has seen 40 knots without ever moving, although I would point out that the rotor head does provide a lot of friction. (It is not a safety concern as it is rigged close to full extension for normal use & there are no asymmetric concerns.)
If memory serves the original Zeeko system had a prusik on the centre line in the middle of a plastic guide which slid on the other 2 lines (probably still on you tube). I don't think this had a locking device either.

As there is an asymmetric danger for rear line use I can understand the desire for a lock but I don't think they will move riding and I am not sure they would move much if handled with reasonable care when slack. If the adjustment range was sensible ie not more than you could compensate for with bar movement I would be prepared to ride without a locking device. I would however, practice static flying with asymmetric adjustment so as not to be surprised by the feel. I am not saying you should do that, just giving an opinion, and I have been known to try some daft things.

Regards Herman

BalsaMichel
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby BalsaMichel » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:11 am

Nice. Do you have plans for the bar ends that you could share?
If you put the cleat on the bottom of the bar then you can use elastic like on the pinxo bar rather than having a line flapping around.
Hi, yes you can download a step-file of the complete barstick with this link:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sy1epe2bab45v ... .STEP?dl=0

Unfortunately I have sold my "test-rig", an old Flysurfer Peak. Maybe I will continue this project with a peak 4 later this year.

Greets
Micha

Regis-de-giens
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:15 am

Herman wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:39 pm
Here is a suggestion for a reasonable lock on the adjuster. Just use spliced loops for friction apart from the last one which is at the adjustment loop. On this one use a figure of eight and leave a long tail. The tail can then be used to adjust or tie a hitch for a lock instead of using some plastic part. Hopefully photos are attached of unlocked and locked:
Do you propose by this a way to lock the adjuster in position on each of the rear lines, is that right ? if yes I am afraid that the locker will rapidly too far away when you depower to be reached by hand . so maybe a way to lock in powered position, which is already interesting by the way.

Herman
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Herman » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:47 am

^^ The far away thing is, maybe why Mikey is looking at rigging it upside down. Obviously it is not a way of locking if you expect to do a lot of adjusting. As I said above I only have this type of rig on the centre lines which does not have a lock, and the one as in the photos on the brake line of a 3 line fixed bridle kite which is rarely adjusted.

I think I could live without a lock in a rear steering line adjuster, but I have never trialled it and so I can't be certain this is a viable way to go!

Do you feel that a lockable system is essential if this type of system is used as a pair on steering lines, or would it be just a desirable bonus??

Regards Herman

Regis-de-giens
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:08 am

Ok sorry for my langage barrier sometimes.

I have been using it without stopper from months now. It works. It does not move under tension during the ride.

So it is just a bonus, after unwinding the line before launching for example or after a fall in the water with a slack line phase and/or if the rear line touches your board for example.

But it is beither dangerous nor long to re-adjust (2 seconds even during a ride in fackie position)... so pure bonus ;-)

Herman
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Herman » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:47 am

Thanks Regis, glad to hear you are getting on well with your backline rig. I set up my centre line system up a few years ago and I remember trying to come up with a cheap and ergonomic lock system without success. But I soon got confident that it was not going to move and gave up the search for a lock.
I think the fig of 8 and tail gives a good visual clue of where the trim is but there are other smoother ways of setting up the visual clue. A single hitch of the tail only provides a small amount of friction and just makes it less likely to move when slack, it can still be adjusted with a little extra pull.

Regards Herman

PS As you know this is not my first language either, I am way to prone too using the vernacular!!

Regis-de-giens
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:11 pm

if I understand correctly , you use this system as a single depower system on the central depower rope, right ? like Zeeko UDS system ?

I also started with this front line system on my light wind kite 2 years ago, by "adapting" the zeeko system to my need ; I really love it and still present on 2 bars I have; Zeeko used a slider that you can buy as a spare part that allows to block by adding friction but also as a bar stroke stopper , necessary in this principle since other wise the bar can depower out of hand distance; here is a short video on my light wind kite:

I love the possibility of this sliding stopper to ride without hands on the bar or rest on the beach in light winds.

Then in a second time I thought about doing this principle on the rear lines to :
- benefit from the lower tension on rear lines, so easier adjusting
- remove any "mechanical" system on the loaded front lines, more mechanically logical and safe
- get a more "failsafe system" vs cleat or UDS on front line : if it slides, it decreases the power (in opposition to front line system that increases the power)
- original, light weight and very economical, no need of any special expensive part.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:27 pm

Mikey wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:14 pm
Thinking about a simple lock system...you could use an type of oversize shoelace clamp, blocked with a knot above an below (on the loop line) and sliding on the line that Herman locks off with the half hitch.

Grab the clamp (and squeeze) so free the lines... an push / pull as desired. All one handed :D
I am not sure to understand, could you draw a rapid sketch ?
The tricky thing is that the moving part (orange fluo on my video with blue kite, let call it Wagon or please advise a better English name) shall be able to move from bottom (near the bar, full power) up to three times the depower you need (this is a 3:1 system = three time less effort but three times more displacement stroke) ; hence the sliding should allow to be sometimes piloted from the rope itself near the bar, as this wagon can finish 60 cm above the bar (if you target a 20 cm trim stroke), not reachable by hand to depower fully or repower.

Herman
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Herman » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:57 pm

I did not bother with the prusiks in the plastic slider or a stopper I just used the rope. Mine is a long throw but I spin the bar by hand over hand on this bar, takes a bit of practice (throw one side up and release then reach under to re-grab). If the bar slips out of my hands the kite is depowered and so it is easy to pull in center line to retrieve the bar. Just remember to hold the bar out as you release the center lines to avoid a snatch of power.

Your pusik set up looks very sweet and better for larger kites with bigger usable sheeting range!


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