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rear line adjusters for bar

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nixmatters
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby nixmatters » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:09 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:27 pm
Mikey wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:14 pm
Thinking about a simple lock system...you could use an type of oversize shoelace clamp, blocked with a knot above an below (on the loop line) and sliding on the line that Herman locks off with the half hitch.

Grab the clamp (and squeeze) so free the lines... an push / pull as desired. All one handed :D
I am not sure to understand, could you draw a rapid sketch ?
The tricky thing is that the moving part (orange fluo on my video with blue kite, let call it Wagon or please advise a better English name) shall be able to move from bottom (near the bar, full power) up to three times the depower you need (this is a 3:1 system = three time less effort but three times more displacement stroke) ; hence the sliding should allow to be sometimes piloted from the rope itself near the bar, as this wagon can finish 60 cm above the bar (if you target a 20 cm trim stroke), not reachable by hand to depower fully or repower.
Mikey, is this the 'oversize shoelace clamp' cord stopper setup you are thinking about? Below are some Duraflex 'push button' models. Improtant is to get a salt water resistant one, without a metal coil spring.
Attachments
dbl cordlock_1.jpg
dbl cordlock_2.jpg
Duraflex P-646 Cordlock_rubberized.JPG
Duraflex P-646 Cordlock_rubberized.JPG (13.06 KiB) Viewed 455 times
Duraflex DCL411 Cordlock.JPG
Duraflex DCL411 Cordlock.JPG (17.2 KiB) Viewed 455 times
Duraflex Button Cordlock.JPG
Duraflex Button Cordlock.JPG (11.78 KiB) Viewed 455 times

Regis-de-giens
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:28 pm

If it is this idea, i have bought some 3 weeks ago for test pn Aliexpress. But maybe we should consider removing these knots to allow for the total depower stroke as i mentioned earlier : to allow the clamp to be slided lower that the wagon. With 2 independant springs and clamp you can release one side only and still clamp the other rope to depower the system remotely from the wagon. And invertely by actuating the spring on the other side: to repower .

Or simplier add a floating stopper like zeeko (but it is a lot of work for a "bonus".

Otherwise i was thinking of adding one addditional turn around the bottom ring to limit the unexpected mis-adjustement. To be tested.

evan
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby evan » Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:53 pm

You guys are vastly overcomplicating things.

Anyone already tried just bare 1.7mm dyneema and concluded they really needed more friction or even a locking system?


If I use thicker dyneema or even polyester sheeted line the friction becomes so high that it becomes already more hassle to adjust the system than you benefit from the stopping power.
With 1.7mm dyneema (sk99 500) it slips from a load above 70DaN, there are bars and lines around that break if you apply that much load on both back lines. And you would be surprised how good it retains the old trim-setting even when handling the bar on the beach.
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nixmatters (Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:56 pm)
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Regis-de-giens
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:55 pm

Evan , i think you have been through the discussion a bit rapidly...
Yes some have tried bare dynema , i did and confirmedtwice that it does not slip and it works without locker under tension even with only 2mm diameter.

We are not overcomplicating things we just look at a bonus, a cheap a.d easy way to maintain the setting even without tension or accidental unsetting during lauch or falls in the water.

And it is pleasant (at least for me ) to exchange good ideas. :wink:
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merl (Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:11 pm)
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Mikey
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Mikey » Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:20 pm

Nix,

That's it... bravo! On the BRM bar I only need to adjust over about 15cm to get the bar's sweetspot, but once i've launched (I hate blow up kites :lol: ) I don't want to down it to adjust, especially in light wind (also i am invariable alone) The little cord lock on the back line adjuster means I can adjust one handed while flying the kite and it will definitely remain put, as Regis says, when floating around un-tensioned

Well done guys :thumb: :thumb:

Mike

nixmatters
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby nixmatters » Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:44 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:28 pm
.... With 2 independant springs and clamp you can release one side only and still clamp the other rope to depower the system remotely from the wagon. And invertely by actuating the spring on the other side: to repower...
How about the following setup with 2 single cord locks fixed at 90deg
- inside line cord lock with press 'button' facing up (towards you), for fine trimming
- outside line cord lock with button facing outwards (left/right) and 2-3 knots on the line, which can still pass through the cord lock when fully pressed down.
The 2 cord locks can be different models/size, making it easier to trim with the inside line and only when needed. For extended trim range.

Sounds quite complicated indeed, but if executed properly could be interesting.

Meanwhile found the double cord lock I was looking for yesterday
springlock-cord-grip-cordlock-double.jpg
springlock-cord-grip-cordlock-double.jpg (149.49 KiB) Viewed 326 times
And here is another interesting one, just food for thought
CLBCA68.jpg
CLBCA68.jpg (22.78 KiB) Viewed 326 times

peppedurso
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby peppedurso » Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:09 pm

Hi,

have you ever thought to use a boa fit system? the big H3 should have enough capacity to manage back lines.




Regis-de-giens
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:38 pm

1000 thanks i was really curious about trying this system i saw on bike shoes but i was not able to trace it and its name ! Do you have an idea about strenght resistance and corosion ?

Regis-de-giens
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Style: 62 kg , light wind, waves
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 18&15&12S, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, peak 5M , Rally 6, Elf 11 &7, 19m2 single skin proto.
foil Ketos, RCS Supreme, TBK Mana, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:03 pm

ok I found out here : 200 lb max force (at 1:30) :


and even 300 lb for lifting apparently which is far than enough !
there seem to be some designs for extreme environment

loco4viento
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Re: rear line adjusters for bar

Postby loco4viento » Sun May 10, 2020 3:39 am

My take on the rear line trim adjustment. No clamps or need for friction to hold it in place. Been using it for about 20 years. I like it.
Attachments
6EABC341-9EE4-4CDE-B52C-83E5AF4059D0.jpeg
230AB046-AB0A-497D-821C-25337798DF0F.jpeg


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