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Plywood Foil Board

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JakeFarley
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby JakeFarley » Mon May 18, 2020 11:46 pm

I've used birch plywood from Home Depot for some twintips I've built. Also used 1/8" plywood underlayment as a bottom skin for xps boards.

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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby bay surfer » Tue May 19, 2020 1:04 am

direnc wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:59 pm
JakeFarley wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:29 pm
Any problems with a plywood board sinking or sitting so low in the water that it is hard to see after you fall off?
When paired with a very heavy aluminium foil (more than 4kg), it was a bit of a problem. But with a regular, sub 4kg aluminum or carbon foil, it's not an issue.

I've thought of making a small pocket foil board out of ply but the buoyancy thing had me perplexed till I saw the boards with just EPS sandwiched between that direnc made. Why bother with 2 pieces of ply....., one plank of 3/4 in AC ply, nerf the front a few times at the front for some nose, Epoxy it. Inserts for the mast plate, 2 inches of EPS Glued to the top(from a boogie board) VALA, soft top high volume pocket board!
Now I got to make one.
Perfect for my new Huge wood composite carbon surf wing.Image
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PrfctChaos
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby PrfctChaos » Tue May 19, 2020 2:20 am

daspi wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:50 pm
PrfctChaos wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:35 pm
Have you tried balsa plywood? Should let you leave out the xps and not end up too heavy.
No local source I know of near Boston, MA. Mail order too expensive. Where do you get it from?
I haven't used it before. I use Pauwlonia / Merbau as core for hydrofoil wings. My boards are all PVC 60 or 80 kg/m^3 core wrapped in Carbon fibre. Comes in nice and light <2Kg.

But I am still seriously considering a Balsa board. Easy to source here in Aus, for example: https://gen-eco.com.au/balsa-banova

You might also get a good results using End grain balsa sheet as your core material (You might find that more easily), then sandwiching between some thin (3mm?) birch or other plywood available in your area. Wrap it in fibreglass and should be good to go. That is what I was considering in anycase.

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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby direnc » Tue May 19, 2020 9:16 am

kollac wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 3:56 pm
direnc wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:59 pm

When paired with a very heavy aluminium foil (more than 4kg), it was a bit of a problem. But with a regular, sub 4kg aluminum or carbon foil, it's not an issue.
Hi there - That light colored diy twintip looks a lot like an Ocean Rodeo Mako - care to elaborate?
Sure, that's my second attempt a DIY mako. This time I attempted to have the concave only along the heelside of the board, similar to a Nomad Wave. And once again ended up with another weird board. It has little rocker, lots of concave at the tips. Very little concave along the heelside edge. How does it ride? It's ok, but nothing special. Despite all that tip concave, it's very very loose, and the combination of low rocker and deep tip concave causes spray....

This is the first one I built:
viewtopic.php?f=107&t=2396012&
This is the thread I got the insipiration:
viewtopic.php?f=107&t=2392943&p=937358

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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby direnc » Tue May 19, 2020 9:27 am

TomW wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:58 pm
Building is always better than thinking, but to give some constructive critism. The negative part of using plywood as skins over foam is that usually plywood is 3 layers. the middle layer is 90 degrees to needed stiffness- and is adding a lot of weight with only marginal or no longitudinal stiffness.
You are better off using a HD 3mm foam skin. Glass under the foam skin and then the laminates over the foam skin. its ok compromise to leave the rails bare from skin. you will wrap rails with laminate anyway increasing laminate thickness on the rails.

I have found the easiest, lightest and cheapest way to increase longitudinal strength and stiffness is to add 400g of unidirectional carbon, 160-140mm wide each side under the final laminate of plain or twill weave glass. the glass adds no or marginal longitudinal stiffness because the carbon wont flex enough to allow the glass stiffness to come into action. the Glass laminate is merely a compressional skin, and cheaper easier to work with than full carbon skin.
I buy a 1m wide roll of 200g uni-d carbon that i slice to width, cheapest that way.

Also, you should look at your rocker and make it more gradual. A rocker that is just a curve 1/4 of the board is not that good for touchdowns at speed.
Thanks a lot for your ideas! I will try to implement them in future builds.
HD foam is difficult and expensive to source where I live, while plywood, xps foam and fiberglass are easy to find. But will attempt to find some HD foam next time, and build a better board.

BTW, for these plywood skinned xps boards, I am planning 2x200g glass on bottom, and 1x200g glass on top. Is this enough or too much?

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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby daspi » Tue May 19, 2020 12:07 pm

I found 2 sheets of 1/4" baltic birch plywood glued up is plenty stiff and strong to use as a twin tip and maybe even foil board. No need to make it heavier with glass, just finish with something. Maybe add another narrow ply layer underneath the bottom center from mast attachment to front foot. I'll take a picture of the current 1/2 marine ply I've built. It was needed to add the piece underneath as I found it too flexible before I even took it to the water.

Next one is going to be ether two layers of 1/4" or something sandwich.

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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby TomW » Thu May 21, 2020 10:21 pm

direnc wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:27 am
TomW wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:58 pm
Building is always better than thinking, but to give some constructive critism. The negative part of using plywood as skins over foam is that usually plywood is 3 layers. the middle layer is 90 degrees to needed stiffness- and is adding a lot of weight with only marginal or no longitudinal stiffness.
You are better off using a HD 3mm foam skin. Glass under the foam skin and then the laminates over the foam skin. its ok compromise to leave the rails bare from skin. you will wrap rails with laminate anyway increasing laminate thickness on the rails.

I have found the easiest, lightest and cheapest way to increase longitudinal strength and stiffness is to add 400g of unidirectional carbon, 160-140mm wide each side under the final laminate of plain or twill weave glass. the glass adds no or marginal longitudinal stiffness because the carbon wont flex enough to allow the glass stiffness to come into action. the Glass laminate is merely a compressional skin, and cheaper easier to work with than full carbon skin.
I buy a 1m wide roll of 200g uni-d carbon that i slice to width, cheapest that way.

Also, you should look at your rocker and make it more gradual. A rocker that is just a curve 1/4 of the board is not that good for touchdowns at speed.
Thanks a lot for your ideas! I will try to implement them in future builds.
HD foam is difficult and expensive to source where I live, while plywood, xps foam and fiberglass are easy to find. But will attempt to find some HD foam next time, and build a better board.

BTW, for these plywood skinned xps boards, I am planning 2x200g glass on bottom, and 1x200g glass on top. Is this enough or too much?
Your lamination should be symmetrical top and bottom. The amount is depending upon the strength of the core and plywood together. The idea is that you are building a beam that is fixed at rear and you will stand with your weight on it. Like a diving board, but no flex.
You'll need extra laminate around and forward of the mast plate because it will want to crush the laminate at the front edge of the plate, the forces are concentrated there.
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BalsaMichel
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby BalsaMichel » Fri May 22, 2020 8:27 am

PrfctChaos wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 2:20 am
I haven't used it before. I use Pauwlonia / Merbau as core for hydrofoil wings. My boards are all PVC 60 or 80 kg/m^3 core wrapped in Carbon fibre. Comes in nice and light <2Kg.

But I am still seriously considering a Balsa board. Easy to source here in Aus, for example: https://gen-eco.com.au/balsa-banova

You might also get a good results using End grain balsa sheet as your core material (You might find that more easily), then sandwiching between some thin (3mm?) birch or other plywood available in your area. Wrap it in fibreglass and should be good to go. That is what I was considering in anycase.
I´m having an eye on this one for my next home built:

https://www.3accorematerials.com/en/pro ... lsa-veneer

Normally I´m using bcore qx blanks from from bcomp but with 210 g/liter they are a bit heavy for board volumes above 5 liters or so. The Baltec VBC is 156 g/liter.

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daspi
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby daspi » Sun May 24, 2020 4:31 pm

Here is my ugly duckling.
Attachments
2020-05-24 10.54.12 (Medium).jpg
2020-05-24 10.53.51 (Medium).jpg
2020-05-24 10.53.31 (Medium).jpg
2020-05-24 10.53.14 (Medium).jpg
2020-05-24 10.52.50 (Medium).jpg

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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby kollac » Thu May 28, 2020 2:13 pm

I have leftover cedar from my MAKO twintip build (I ripped it into strips and built the same way you'd build a kayak/canoe). I may rip the remaining board into flat 3/8 inch boards/wide strips and make my own "plywood". Just force some shape into it when I glue it all up to achieve rocker and maybe some minor concave.


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