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Plywood Foil Board

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daspi
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Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:55 am
Local Beach: Lynn - Nahant Long Beach, Revere Beach, Dog Beach
Favorite Beaches: the ones I can get to within 10-15 minutes
Gear: Eleveight FS 12m, 9m and Core XR5 7m, Core Section 8,10,12m
and lots of other junk kites in the shed
Cabrinha Custom and Ace twin tip, Plywood LW boards
Surfboards: Tomo Vader, Kiteloose Nirvana, Cabrinha Skillit
Foil: F-One Pocket with Cloud 9 mast and wing, Plywood pocket board
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby daspi » Sat May 16, 2020 6:51 pm

TomW wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:23 pm
I suppose for learning a heavy board is merely an inconvenience. As you improve you'll really want a lighter board. Try to find 10-15mm thick 80kg/m3 corecell or divinycell and glue those together to get rocker, then laminate. It will be much lighter.
I'm actually already looking into building a sandwich with XPS foam and 3-4mm plywood. Should probably work to bring the weight down?

direnc
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Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Alacati, Pirlanta, Ilica
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby direnc » Sat May 16, 2020 8:08 pm

daspi wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 2:06 pm
@direnc Alright, so if you want to put in concave to the board ans strap it down as you describe, how will the concave be permanent? Did you glass it, or just two layers of plywood glued together? Did you put in the nose rocker at the same time you clamped the concave?
Both the concave and nose rocker will be permanent and put in simultaneously. Just two layers of plywood glued together with marine PU wood glue. The concave has no springback, and the nose rocker has a little springback. I did glass the boards after gluing the layers. Put 2x200g on bottome and 1x200g glass on top. Probably more glass than needed. Also a strip of glass vertical to stringer line across where the rocker starts and the hook is placed. A very heavy friend of mine (100kg+) managed to break the first two boards I built there (one was 2x18mm XPS foam core, the other 18mm XPS with 4mm plywood on top).

These are the ones I am building now. The one with green foam has two 4x60x1.8cm paulownia pieces inside.
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TomW
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Local Beach: Vejbystrand, Lomma
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby TomW » Sat May 16, 2020 10:20 pm

daspi wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 6:51 pm
TomW wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 4:23 pm
I suppose for learning a heavy board is merely an inconvenience. As you improve you'll really want a lighter board. Try to find 10-15mm thick 80kg/m3 corecell or divinycell and glue those together to get rocker, then laminate. It will be much lighter.
I'm actually already looking into building a sandwich with XPS foam and 3-4mm plywood. Should probably work to bring the weight down?
Not much

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daspi
Medium Poster
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:55 am
Local Beach: Lynn - Nahant Long Beach, Revere Beach, Dog Beach
Favorite Beaches: the ones I can get to within 10-15 minutes
Gear: Eleveight FS 12m, 9m and Core XR5 7m, Core Section 8,10,12m
and lots of other junk kites in the shed
Cabrinha Custom and Ace twin tip, Plywood LW boards
Surfboards: Tomo Vader, Kiteloose Nirvana, Cabrinha Skillit
Foil: F-One Pocket with Cloud 9 mast and wing, Plywood pocket board
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 2 times
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby daspi » Sun May 17, 2020 11:02 pm

Reporting first test run, success! Sort of. I took the board for a test run. No finish on the ply yet. Just the glued up plywood and t-nuts for attaching mast and a front strap. Marginal conditions today 12-18mph onshore wind. Still with the old original aluminum Liquid Force foil fish setup minus the heavy fish board. How does it compare? It's a bit lighter but obviously less float. The good news is I can put it on it's side easier, the bad news is it sinks in the back if you don't have much kite pull in the lulls and waiting to water start. Definitely harder to manage on the low wind side today. A little harder to pick up speed before lift off, but not too bad. Dropped the kite in a lull and there was the next difference, less water resistance due to the board not extending much beyond the mast attachment in the back I think. Had a hard time keeping the board in front of me to re-launch the kite. Foot strap position needs to be adjusted back but otherwise a functional setup. Already contemplating the changes to implement for the next board. Oh, and yes it does float, barely.

TomW
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby TomW » Mon May 18, 2020 2:58 pm

Building is always better than thinking, but to give some constructive critism. The negative part of using plywood as skins over foam is that usually plywood is 3 layers. the middle layer is 90 degrees to needed stiffness- and is adding a lot of weight with only marginal or no longitudinal stiffness.
You are better off using a HD 3mm foam skin. Glass under the foam skin and then the laminates over the foam skin. its ok compromise to leave the rails bare from skin. you will wrap rails with laminate anyway increasing laminate thickness on the rails.

I have found the easiest, lightest and cheapest way to increase longitudinal strength and stiffness is to add 400g of unidirectional carbon, 160-140mm wide each side under the final laminate of plain or twill weave glass. the glass adds no or marginal longitudinal stiffness because the carbon wont flex enough to allow the glass stiffness to come into action. the Glass laminate is merely a compressional skin, and cheaper easier to work with than full carbon skin.
I buy a 1m wide roll of 200g uni-d carbon that i slice to width, cheapest that way.

Also, you should look at your rocker and make it more gradual. A rocker that is just a curve 1/4 of the board is not that good for touchdowns at speed.
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kollac
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby kollac » Mon May 18, 2020 3:56 pm

direnc wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:59 pm

When paired with a very heavy aluminium foil (more than 4kg), it was a bit of a problem. But with a regular, sub 4kg aluminum or carbon foil, it's not an issue.
Hi there - That light colored diy twintip looks a lot like an Ocean Rodeo Mako - care to elaborate?

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daspi
Medium Poster
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:55 am
Local Beach: Lynn - Nahant Long Beach, Revere Beach, Dog Beach
Favorite Beaches: the ones I can get to within 10-15 minutes
Gear: Eleveight FS 12m, 9m and Core XR5 7m, Core Section 8,10,12m
and lots of other junk kites in the shed
Cabrinha Custom and Ace twin tip, Plywood LW boards
Surfboards: Tomo Vader, Kiteloose Nirvana, Cabrinha Skillit
Foil: F-One Pocket with Cloud 9 mast and wing, Plywood pocket board
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0

Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby daspi » Mon May 18, 2020 6:28 pm

I plan on learning to build in the simplest, easiest way until I have a functional board shape that I like and then maybe worry about the weight on a consecutive build. But thanks for all the tips as of now. Beside just weight consideration, building with just wood is way more eco friendly too. I like the simplicity of plywood. Used it successfully for light wind door style kite boards.

I'm contemplating if I should even use the XPS sandwich or not for above reasons. Maybe an EVA floor mat as deck pad will give it additional float too. But EVA is also not eco friendly. Oh well, I guess I will have to compromise some. Kite sport materials in general are just not eco friendly.

TomW
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Posts: 3502
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Vejbystrand, Lomma
Gear: TW Surfboards hydrofoil board 110
Gong Veloce M, 100cm carbon mast
Ozone Hyperlink V1 7m
Hyperlink V2 9m, 13m
Concept Air Wave 4,5m
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby TomW » Mon May 18, 2020 10:10 pm

20200517_200224.jpg
Try balsa wood

PrfctChaos
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Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby PrfctChaos » Mon May 18, 2020 10:35 pm

Have you tried balsa plywood? Should let you leave out the xps and not end up too heavy.

User avatar
daspi
Medium Poster
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:55 am
Local Beach: Lynn - Nahant Long Beach, Revere Beach, Dog Beach
Favorite Beaches: the ones I can get to within 10-15 minutes
Gear: Eleveight FS 12m, 9m and Core XR5 7m, Core Section 8,10,12m
and lots of other junk kites in the shed
Cabrinha Custom and Ace twin tip, Plywood LW boards
Surfboards: Tomo Vader, Kiteloose Nirvana, Cabrinha Skillit
Foil: F-One Pocket with Cloud 9 mast and wing, Plywood pocket board
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 0

Re: Plywood Foil Board

Postby daspi » Mon May 18, 2020 10:50 pm

PrfctChaos wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:35 pm
Have you tried balsa plywood? Should let you leave out the xps and not end up too heavy.
No local source I know of near Boston, MA. Mail order too expensive. Where do you get it from?


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