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1.5mm dyneema pigtails?

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nixmatters
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Re: 1.5mm dyneema pigtails?

Postby nixmatters » Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:13 am

let's put things in perspective
pigtail line.jpg
The actual pitgail in the photo is made from a 2,2mm line and I see absolutely no reason to use a thicker one. Above it is a 2,5mm depower line (one of those running inside a PU tube) - already too thick for a pigtail. I don't have 3 and 4mm lines around, but even if I did I wouldn't waste time to splice them.

What really matters here is the abrasion resistance, which to a very high extent is determined by the 'thickness' of the single filament (~20.000 - 30.000 filaments in a flying line).
In the 2.2 and 2.05mm lines, the filament is ~50% 'thicker' than in a common SK75/78 flying line and almost 3.4 times 'thicker' than a SK99 filament.
*by 'thicker/thickness' I mean linear density (denier/decitex)

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Re: 1.5mm dyneema pigtails?

Postby edt » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:05 am

Usually when you make a pigtail out of kite line it's done as in the photo above, which is to say there's a splice done so 1.5mm line turns into doubled line. 1.5mm should be enough, but it depends on how the pigtail is made. If the 1.5mm line is knotted where there is bare 1.5mm line then no you can't use it. If the 1.5mm line is knotted where it's spliced and thus basically doubled in strength then use go ahead and use it. Mix matters in the post just above puts his finger on the problem with thin pigtails and that is reduced abrasion resistance. It's not hard to make your own pigtails here are what mine look like:

Image

I start with 24 inches of kite line and it ends up being 3 inches long when I'm done.

It's useful to learn how to make your own pigtails. There's no secret here, and everyone has their own method. I usually make a dozen pigtails per year. Once you learn how you end up making a lot and use them everywhere. I make them out of regular kite line.

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Re: 1.5mm dyneema pigtails?

Postby BillyGoatGruff » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:53 am

let's put things in perspective
I agree the 2.2mm is fine, the others are way too thin. Naish Dash = 3mm (just measured), Naish Torch = 3.5mm (just measured), Naish Pivot = 3mm, If Naish are using 3mm then that's what I'm recommending. You are factoring in wear from salt, grit, sand etc.

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Re: 1.5mm dyneema pigtails?

Postby OzBungy » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:49 am

The main reason to use 3mm dyneema for leaders and pigtails is that it is thick enough to give a decent knot for putting a loop around. You can use a normal figure-8 or a figure-8 with two turns through. It also makes for thicker loops that are easier to open with your fingers. Loops can have ribbon pull tabs added to make removal easier.

For leaders you want something you can grab with less risk of cutting your hands.

I use no name brand SK75 dyneema from ebay available in a range of decorator colours.

You can make thin line thicker by running the tail of the splice for the full length of the pigtail.

For double-ended splices you can also run the tails from either end down past each other. It doesn't make the pigtail any thicker or stronger, but you can get a decent bury in a nice short loop or pigtail.
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Re: 1.5mm dyneema pigtails?

Postby Kiter_from_Germany » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:31 pm

edt wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:05 am
Usually when you make a pigtail out of kite line it's done as in the photo above, which is to say there's a splice done so 1.5mm line turns into doubled line. 1.5mm should be enough, but it depends on how the pigtail is made. If the 1.5mm line is knotted where there is bare 1.5mm line then no you can't use it. If the 1.5mm line is knotted where it's spliced and thus basically doubled in strength then use go ahead and use it. Mix matters in the post just above puts his finger on the problem with thin pigtails and that is reduced abrasion resistance. It's not hard to make your own pigtails here are what mine look like:

Image

I start with 24 inches of kite line and it ends up being 3 inches long when I'm done.

It's useful to learn how to make your own pigtails. There's no secret here, and everyone has their own method. I usually make a dozen pigtails per year. Once you learn how you end up making a lot and use them everywhere. I make them out of regular kite line.
Hi,
is there a way to brummel splice a ring?
(lines interlocking themselfs like a brummel splice)

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Re: 1.5mm dyneema pigtails?

Postby Mossy 757 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:39 pm

I've been on 1.3mm SK99 for all 4 flying lines on my 15m R1V2 and race foil for over 40 hours of use and have absolutely no indication they're not in perfect shape.

You people and your 2mm pigtails...lol. Craziness. Just use the same line you use for your front lines and do a brummel lock on the splice, it'll be stronger than the flying lines because it'll be doubled into itself with the bury, especially if they're fairly short.

If the issue is actually related to the fact that you have kook-proof connectors and need to tie a knot in your lines in order to attach your lark's head, then look into adding the little metal rings that Flysurfer uses so you don't have to tie knots in anything. Knots are bad, m'kaaaaayyyy?

https://www.skshapes.com/shop/flying-lines/

That might be helpful in considering what size lines to use for flying lines or pigtails.
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nixmatters
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Re: 1.5mm dyneema pigtails?

Postby nixmatters » Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:09 am

Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:31 pm

Hi,
is there a way to brummel splice a ring?
(lines interlocking themselfs like a brummel splice)
If there were it would/should've been called a Houdini spliced loop :wink:

There are videos in YouTube showing a continuous loop utilizing the Brummel lock, but this is a false Brummel splice as the loaded part is basically a KNOT, not a spliced bury.

Do a normal double spliced loop, put few stitches with a fine shoe thread and you're good to go.

P. S. Theoretically, this can be done if you can braid by hand few inches of a 12 strand kite line. Take this as a joke.

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Re: 1.5mm dyneema pigtails?

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:49 am

Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:31 pm
Hi,
is there a way to brummel splice a ring?
(lines interlocking themselfs like a brummel splice)
You mean to have a ring in the loop?

Sure, you start with that loop and use both ends of the line to make the Brummel, then do a McDonald Brummel on the other end...
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Re: 1.5mm dyneema pigtails?

Postby Kiter_from_Germany » Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:40 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:49 am
Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:31 pm
Hi,
is there a way to brummel splice a ring?
(lines interlocking themselfs like a brummel splice)
You mean to have a ring in the loop?

Sure, you start with that loop and use both ends of the line to make the Brummel, then do a McDonald Brummel on the other end...
hi,
ment no metal ring or so.
just a ring made from hosed dynema line, while interlocking the open ends to fabricate a ring.

This type of connection is easy made while reconnecting a broken (cutted) line,(shorten it of course) for example, but I never got this self interlocking on a closed dynema ring.

If I see it write, your pigtails are made with an interlocking(?) technique perhaps.

If so, whats the trick?

nixmatters
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Re: 1.5mm dyneema pigtails?

Postby nixmatters » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:20 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:49 am
Kiter_from_Germany wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:31 pm
Hi,
is there a way to brummel splice a ring?
(lines interlocking themselfs like a brummel splice)
You mean to have a ring in the loop?

Sure, you start with that loop and use both ends of the line to make the Brummel, then do a McDonald Brummel on the other end...
I think he means this one. But as I mentioned above, the Brummel lock is load bearing here, not the spliced buried ends

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