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Open Fuse

Here you can exchange your experience and datas about your home build boards
fluidity
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DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints.
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Open Fuse

Postby fluidity » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:56 pm

Lots of fuselage designs and wing/ mast connections out there. Are any even compatible across brands?

Having DIYed my first set of wings and fuselage I now realise the importance of the connections of each component to each other. Wide foot for wings, deep socket for strut.
And then the struts/masts/keel pieces are not uniform, nor are the hole mounts. My re-worked fuselage is a beast after fixing the previous defects :lol:

What are your preferences on the mast profile and the screws, 2 or 3?

Are any of the various fuselage designs actually sophisticated enough to even be copyright worthy?
Which ones best lend themselves to DIY component matching? Which ones are very secure but least affect the strength of the connected wings?

Thanks in advance...

Mossy 757
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Re: Open Fuse.

Postby Mossy 757 » Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:36 pm

Most of the race gear seems to be converging on the design that Mike Zajicek invented for his foils: http://www.mikeslab.com/instructions/

He uses 4 bolts to mount the strut to the fuse, Chubanga has moved over in this direction as well with the V3: https://www.chubangafoil.com/gallery

That also gives you some play to get the angle of incidence of the wings correct at that junction, that first link has some description of that.

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Re: Open Fuse.

Postby BalsaMichel » Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:25 pm

For me first question would be if it´s really usefull to pack small foils and big surf-style wings into one standard. What I like most at the moment are the designs where the front section of the fuselage is laminated into one part with the front wing. Split behind the mast connection point then. Looks like a reasonable compromise to me between stability, packing size and production effort. Example: Gravity Carbon from F-one.

Micha

fluidity
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DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints.
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Re: Open Fuse.

Postby fluidity » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:35 am

Mossy 757 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:36 pm
Most of the race gear seems to be converging on the design that Mike Zajicek invented for his foils: http://www.mikeslab.com/instructions/
He uses 4 bolts to mount the strut to the fuse, Chubanga has moved over in this direction as well with the V3: https://www.chubangafoil.com/gallery
That also gives you some play to get the angle of incidence of the wings correct at that junction, that first link has some description of that.
Thanks Mossy.
Those manufacturers seem to be using connections near identical from what I can see. Also they appear to have moulded or glued their wings and fuselages together.
For racing this is an attractive approach for manufacturers as they have a long experience to draw from for wing angles etc.

I can't see much of the fuselage to mast attachment but I suspect the 4 bolts are to stiffen a rather short socket where the mast fits in/over the fuselage. For racing and kiting this may be acceptable but keep in mind that the wing span for kite racing doesn't need to be very wide compared with foil surfing and wing surfing where the speed of a wave is a much more significant factor. Also, I suspect that racers although going very fast, are less likely to thrash their gear and use it on a regular basis so I don't think wear is as much of a consideration for them.

Here's some websites with fuselage pictures:
Armstrong: Tapered hex fit, carbon sleved titanium: https://www.armstrongfoils.com/product/fuselage/ $459 USD (made in NZ)
Gong: Aluminium square tubes: https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/?s=fuselage 69,00€
Mantafoils: Unknown material, semi box section: https://www.mantafoils.com/ MonoV3 USD 219 USA?
Naish: Unknown material, highly contoured profile: https://naishusa.com/collections/foil-p ... 5-fuselage $205 USD, based Hawai?
Spleen: Only available in a full USA BOX kit. (681,37 € - 973,82 €) Based?
Axis: Aluminium, highly contoured profile: https://axisfoils.com/collections/s-series-fuselages Standard length: $349.00 USD Based?
Go-foil: Prepreg carbon, prejoined mast and square sections but in carbon.
F-One: Carbon and aluminium, massive range, doesn't seem to be much standardisation but there are some very nice contours. https://www.f-one.world/?s=fuselage Pick your sport...
NeilPride: A bit like F-one above. Very streamlined fuselage but lots of models.
Moses: Like NP and F-one above, totally customised.


Sure there's a lot more i don't know of.
Ozone kites, Switchkites have wings but no hydrofoils. Can't see any hydrofoils on Duotone website.
There's a Swiss wind wing manufacturer I can't remember the name of, don't know if they sell hydrofoils?
Last edited by fluidity on Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

Mossy 757
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Re: Open Fuse.

Postby Mossy 757 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:13 pm

fluidity wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:35 am
Also they appear to have moulded or glued their wings and fuselages together.
Yeah that's another standard with race foils that surf and wing haven't really honed in on. I think the only winning foil that doesn't have a 1 piece glider assembly is the Levitaz R5. The Chubanga and Mike's Lab (as well as Delta and probably a bunch others) are all now largely 1 piece lowers.

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Re: Open Fuse.

Postby jakemoore » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:54 pm

It would be sweet to have a fuse that let you mix wings and stabs. E.g. a fuse that does Ketos wing and Moses Stab and vice versa.

Also a fuse that would allow different mast to be compatible with different wingsets.

Could be a CNC service similar to the project Cedrus masts with adapters.

fluidity
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Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
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Gear: Old Flexfoil 9, Switch Element V4 11m, Ocean Rodeo Prodigy 7m 2014, Nitro14m v6, Nitro9m v6 12mSwitch Legacy2
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints.
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Re: Open Fuse.

Postby fluidity » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:14 am

Mossy 757 wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:13 pm
fluidity wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:35 am
Also they appear to have moulded or glued their wings and fuselages together.
Yeah that's another standard with race foils that surf and wing haven't really honed in on. I think the only winning foil that doesn't have a 1 piece glider assembly is the Levitaz R5. The Chubanga and Mike's Lab (as well as Delta and probably a bunch others) are all now largely 1 piece lowers.
I think many people prefer easy packing for travel good performance to bulky carrying racing perfection.

So far the fuselages I like best are:
Armstrong Foil's tapered hex fit.
Gong aluminium square cross-sections.
Go-foil Carbon square cross-sections.


I'm tempted to buy a Gong fuselage to see if it fits my aliexpress 3-hole mast.

My current mast is custom fitted to my own wingset design but I'm tempted to do more designs and I really want to standardise. Otherwise if I make my own I need to CNC or 3D print the core. Glass and/or Carbon braid sandwiching and pressed into the mast void with some unidirectional lengthways and looping around the inside and outside of the fuselage connection would seem to me to be a good way of maximising strength for the application.

fluidity
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Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Old Flexfoil 9, Switch Element V4 11m, Ocean Rodeo Prodigy 7m 2014, Nitro14m v6, Nitro9m v6 12mSwitch Legacy2
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints.
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Re: Open Fuse.

Postby fluidity » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:34 am

jakemoore wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:54 pm
It would be sweet to have a fuse that let you mix wings and stabs. E.g. a fuse that does Ketos wing and Moses Stab and vice versa.

Also a fuse that would allow different mast to be compatible with different wingsets.

Could be a CNC service similar to the project Cedrus masts with adapters.
One of the Gong fuselages has a routed rectangular box. Into that I believe you place a mast adaptor sleeve to pack out the differences. It's a very practical way to allow for a range of mast types.
These can easily be 3D printed or CNCed by those with the gear. Anything created in 3D can be loaded to thingiverse , shapeways or iMaterialise and printed in their avaliable materials.

Many of the fuselages are too custom on the ends, requiring very specific wing mouldings. I think those ones are ultimately doomed.

I also don't want to be creating yet another fuselage that doesn't fit anything else!
Has anyone else got recommendations? Thoughts on the Gong fuselage and the Armstrong wing connections? Dimensions? Stabiliser shims are super easy to 3D design and print.

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downunder
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Re: Open Fuse.

Postby downunder » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:58 am

"I think many people prefer easy packing for travel good performance to bulky carrying racing perfection."

- irrelevant at my local. Big cars, big houses, big country ;)

I think this is why Stick On Tracks do not sell here at all. People place complete HF on a car roof to save time, which adds up when kiting every/second day.

I glued the fuse/mast. Easier.

Mossy 757
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Re: Open Fuse.

Postby Mossy 757 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:03 pm

fluidity wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:14 am
I think many people prefer easy packing for travel good performance to bulky carrying racing perfection.
Maybe, but if you're packing a board as well as kites and bars together, a single piece glider is hardly an inconvenience based on average length/width of race setups. If you're trying to pack a single-piece wingfoil that has a 3' wingspan I can see it being a problem, but my race glider fits in a couple of my pieces of luggage as well as my snowboard bag perfectly.

I go to the beach with my glider and strut connected and only ever install/remove the tuttle from the board and I find it's about 2-3 minutes to unload the car and be walking down to the beach in my gear. Again, hardly an inconvenience. I drive a Model 3, so it's not like I have a truck or anything either...

I think portability really is only a factor when you're talking about gear not designed for kite power, like Wing and SUP foils. All the kite gear I've seen is like crazy easy to disassemble and travel with.


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