Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Open Fuse

Here you can exchange your experience and datas about your home build boards
fluidity
Frequent Poster
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Late model Switch kites element and nitros,
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing. Now focussing on Wingsurfing to rise to a new challenge. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints, built a CNC machine last year and now cutting designs with CNC as well as 3D printing.
Up to 3 DIY foil designs built and getting the hang of wingsurf foiling as we switch into 2021.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Open Fuse

Postby fluidity » Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:12 am

Changed from 3D design last night to 2.5D (name for CNC with different height operations) and from an 8 hour operation I trimmed it down to 1 hour 40 minutes.
Definitely not as pretty as the full 3D but just as strong. Needs slimming towards the pultruded tail rod but otherwise done. Fits quite close to an F=one mast and with about 1mm space around sides for a 3Hole aliexpress mast(which looks the same as the
Gong ones.)
Whoever said the 12mm pultruded glass fibre rod wasn't strong enough, I think correct for me. But for riders in 50-70kg range it's likely enough. For me, I will get a carbon fibre one. I don't think the glass fibre one would break in regular use but there's probably slightly too much flex for my weight, currently 105 Kg
Attachments
20201027_215109.jpg
20201027_214805.jpg
20201027_214746.jpg
20201027_213454.jpg
20201027_213434.jpg
20201027_213419.jpg

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2370
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Open Fuse

Postby downunder » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:38 pm

I have 10mm carbon rod, and it is quite flexy.

My guess, it would snap on torsion.
IMG_27102020_223530_(1080_x_1080_pixel).jpg

fluidity
Frequent Poster
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Late model Switch kites element and nitros,
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing. Now focussing on Wingsurfing to rise to a new challenge. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints, built a CNC machine last year and now cutting designs with CNC as well as 3D printing.
Up to 3 DIY foil designs built and getting the hang of wingsurf foiling as we switch into 2021.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Open Fuse

Postby fluidity » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:02 pm

downunder wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:38 pm
I have 10mm carbon rod, and it is quite flexy.
My guess, it would snap on torsion.
It doesn't sound like carbon fibre to me. Even 10mm true carbon fibre rod should resist flex more than my 12mm glass fibre. You might have a black coloured glass fibre rod? Tents often use glass fibre rods to hold shape, they need some flex. typically around 6mm to 8mm diameter rods.
Worst case I'll use a thicker CF rod.
I was trying to find good sources for carbon fibre rods last night and checked out tiitanium rod as well. Price is not that different.
Attachments
cfVSglass.PNG
cfVSglass.PNG (38.96 KiB) Viewed 614 times

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2370
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 85 times

Re: Open Fuse

Postby downunder » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:08 am

Is Displacement 6.1mm for rod 4.5mm? Sounds right to me.

My work :
IMG_0295.JPG

User avatar
tegirinenashi
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 737
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:29 am
Local Beach: 3rd Ave
Gear: Bates 4000, Dominator MX-10
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Open Fuse

Postby tegirinenashi » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:27 am

I'm assembling fuselage from pultruded carbon fiber carbon rods. I have also bought black glass fiber rods, because you can never trust anything from aliexpress, but carbon fiber items are indeed much less flexy and also are about 30% lighter. I have bought 6 mm diameter ones. After gluing them into honeycomb like fashion and wrapping them into carbon fabric sleeve, I've got fuse about 20 mm in diameter in the nose section, which seems to be rigid enough. (I intend to glue it to the mast; if there were holes and cavity for the mast attachment compromising the strength then it must be designed wider than that).

Here is WIP showing the fuse skeleton (it is supposed to be wrapped into one more carbon sleeve):
fuse.jpg

fluidity
Frequent Poster
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Late model Switch kites element and nitros,
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing. Now focussing on Wingsurfing to rise to a new challenge. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints, built a CNC machine last year and now cutting designs with CNC as well as 3D printing.
Up to 3 DIY foil designs built and getting the hang of wingsurf foiling as we switch into 2021.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Open Fuse

Postby fluidity » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:07 am

downunder wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:08 am
Is Displacement 6.1mm for rod 4.5mm? Sounds right to me.
Looks pretty slick :thumb:
At the moment I primarily have this burning ambition to get a wing more suited to my weight under me so I can progress in more reasonable conditions. Having made the decision to work on an open design to get there has slowed me a little but I'm going to see benefits shortly, my mast socket needs minimal work to switch between two styles of mast and my first big wing is almost ready to test. I had the [gong budget fuselage front socket compatible) 3D printed model out by approx 2degrees but I cored my pilot hole in the fuselage through the wing at 6mm and inserted a 3D printer filament heating cartridge, applied 12V and after about 10 minutes the aluminium and epoxy matrix were hot enough to let me straighten the fuselage in the epoxy/glass matriix in the wing and get the right angle on the mast. Currently I have some epoxy and glass curing and filling the small mast to fuselage gap for an F-one mast. Wind Friday, tomorrow it's sanding, coating the wing, make a stabiliser wing clamp for the fibreglass tube, pick up CSK M8 x 10mm SS bolts, Friday I'll have to pass on the wind and finish sand, polish the wind ready for Saturday when the wind is even better :D Hopefully I will get to feel the stabiliser/glass fibre rod combo for first time and see if I like it!

fluidity
Frequent Poster
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Late model Switch kites element and nitros,
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing. Now focussing on Wingsurfing to rise to a new challenge. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints, built a CNC machine last year and now cutting designs with CNC as well as 3D printing.
Up to 3 DIY foil designs built and getting the hang of wingsurf foiling as we switch into 2021.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Open Fuse

Postby fluidity » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:12 am

tegirinenashi wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:27 am
I'm assembling fuselage from pultruded carbon fiber carbon rods. I have also bought black glass fiber rods, because you can never trust anything from aliexpress, but carbon fiber items are indeed much less flexy and also are about 30% lighter. I have bought 6 mm diameter ones. After gluing them into honeycomb like fashion and wrapping them into carbon fabric sleeve, I've got fuse about 20 mm in diameter in the nose section, which seems to be rigid enough. (I intend to glue it to the mast; if there were holes and cavity for the mast attachment compromising the strength then it must be designed wider than that).
Lightness of true carbon is quite noticeable. Interesting approach you're using. When I followed your link I found tubes, not rods?

I found these but at only 500mm they are marginal on length, Possibly OK as my open fuse aluminium component is already almost 300mm long. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3257356 ... 5392%23619

User avatar
tegirinenashi
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 737
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:29 am
Local Beach: 3rd Ave
Gear: Bates 4000, Dominator MX-10
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Open Fuse

Postby tegirinenashi » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:18 pm

That's right: tubes; 6mm outer, 3 mm inner diameter. It is the common structural engineering wisdom that the inner part of the bar/tube/strut is useless for the bar strength. Then, you may ask why not to use just a larger diameter tube? This is because I can glue relatively short 500 mm rods in overlapping Lego fashion. The fuse at the picture is 700mm and its tail is just 2 by 2 rods wide, while the nose is slightly more substantial:
fuse2.jpg
fuse1.jpg
I admit that even though those 6 mm tubes alone seem quite bending resistant, I have no idea how good they are in respect to torsion. Keep in mind however that, first, they are glued together, and then wrapped into carbon sleeve with carbon strands doing about 45 degrees -- perfectly aligned against torsion. Besides, is torsion really a problem for the fuse (as opposed to mast)?

tomtom
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1605
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 190 times

Re: Open Fuse

Postby tomtom » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:19 pm

torsion is much bigger problem with fuse. Infact fuse stifness is much more noticable than mast stifness and flexible fuse is almost unridable. Been there with very longitudinal stiff UD fuse which was quite flexible in torsion.
On small wing is okeyish but high AR big wings are unridable

User avatar
tegirinenashi
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 737
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:29 am
Local Beach: 3rd Ave
Gear: Bates 4000, Dominator MX-10
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 18 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Open Fuse

Postby tegirinenashi » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:34 pm

Torsion is proportional to the beam length. For fuselage we are talking about 20 cm or so of the length between the main wing attachment point and the mast. I have hard time believing that this fuse section, which is supporting the full rider weight, might be weak on torsion. Second, what is the cause of torsion on the fuse? The difference between the lift of the right and the left wing. Those are always balanced (or are closed to balanced during maneuvers). Because if they are not balanced, the foil would rotate wildly and rider will fall. Finally, the cross section of the fuse is typically more than 20 cm -- much thicker than typical thickness of the mast. I don't know -- you have to really make an effort to manufacture 20 mm wide torsion challenged rod.

To summarize: I have seen noodle masts. I have yet to see noddle fuse.


Return to “Gear Builders”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests