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Wrinkles, WTF

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downunder
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Re: Wrinkles, WTF

Postby downunder » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:20 am

Here u go:



The bag might have creases all over, the important part is not to disturb the lower layers.

D.
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Re: Wrinkles, WTF

Postby Erinhdisc » Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:59 pm

Very helpful. In Downunders video he uses perf film as first layer, then nylon peelply, then breather. He got great results, but I am confused how this order can be interchangeable, as I thought nylon went first then perf film. Also, I have noticed a shortage of videos showing layup process start to finish, especially with rail wrapping. If anyone has links or want to make one that shows a successfully layup and bagging, that would be an enormous help to first time board builders. I have found good youtube videos showing professional carbon windsurf boards being bagged, but there are many differences to what we are doing.

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Re: Wrinkles, WTF

Postby TomW » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:08 pm

you're right about lack of videos showing process of lamination and vbagging. I can't do it as I'd need a second person videographing. Sure, I could set up on a tripod, but you'd miss the important details. Plus a ton of editing.

Easycomposites.co.uk has great videos on using vbag consumables. Downunder is not following the recommended conventions. The peelply is supposed to be first on the laminates, then the perf film, then the absorber. Thats what I do because that's what the manufacturers of the consumables say how to use them.

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downunder
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Re: Wrinkles, WTF

Postby downunder » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:29 am

Of course, sometimes I do put peel ply first. It totally depends on the finish I want to achieve. OR, if I'll slap more FG or CF so need a good grip.

On this one I actually forgot to put it first, but there you go. It clearly demonstrates what is possible and what not.

Re wrapping, I think it's a trade secret ;)

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Re: Wrinkles, WTF

Postby Kevin Brooker » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:14 am

Wrap the edges with bias ply cloth. It will go around compound curves and lie flat. The surface laminate overlaps the bias making a continuous layer

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Re: Wrinkles, WTF

Postby Kevin Brooker » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:19 am

https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-gli ... hread.html

There are a bunch of good tutorials in this link. Follow the radio controlled plane and homebuilt aircraft world as there are a ton of resources.

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Re: Wrinkles, WTF

Postby merl » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:21 am

Kevin Brooker wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:14 am
Wrap the edges with bias ply cloth. It will go around compound curves and lie flat. The surface laminate overlaps the bias making a continuous layer
You mean take normal cloth and cut it on a "bias" - i.e. 45 degrees or do you mean use special cloth?

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Re: Wrinkles, WTF

Postby Kevin Brooker » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:06 pm

The cloth can be cut on the 45 bias or you can buy it already cut and in rolls. Before cutting, lightly mist the cloth with a spray adhesive (3m77 works great) to help hold it together after its cut. Another light dusting can hold it in place on the board, wing, whatever before wetting it out. Cut it wider than the finished width as it narrows when pulled and it will stay together better too
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Re: Wrinkles, WTF

Postby TomW » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:11 pm

Here's my process to laminate with rail wrap using carbon:
Mix a little epoxy and brush it on rails and a bit onto deck as much as fiber will wrap.
Lay out thick builders plastic on a table and lay dry cloth on it and wet it out with epoxy
Lift carbon and plastic onto board, flipping it on.
Smooth it out, peel off the plastic.
Using small amount of epoxy and squeegee pull cloth longitudinally from middle of the board.
Then from middle diagonally towards tip , do each side.
Snip cloth at corners and center of nose tail. Using hands ( nitrile gloves of course, using carbon filter gas mask), i wrap rails starting at nose , or tail from center.
Once tail, nose are wrapped, i work from center of longitudinal rail towards tip each side.
( I have tall glassing stands that has board at breast height making it easy to get to underside. Photo is on my shaping stands).
As I'm wrapping rail I might dip fingers in epoxy to lubricate so I don't pull fibers. I'm careful to not drag along fiber edge, I dab with fingers. I make sure wrap is sticking.
Note: by first mixing a small batch of epoxy and brushing on rail, epoxy has some time to absorb into blank and get a little tacky to act like glue.
Now I apply peelply, squeegee it out no wrinkles, then perf film.
Then I use masking tape to pull perf film tight. Masking tape sticks to perf film. Tape has to be long enough to reach around to dry blank or it won't stick.
Then absorber. Tape in place.
Then into vbag.
Result:
20200909_200710.jpg
20200909_200710.jpg
Attachments
20200909_200647.jpg

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Re: Wrinkles, WTF

Postby dirk8037 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:19 pm

Very nice.
Why did you mill away some foam round the insert bases?

What I many time did wrong was to be too tight with resin and to aply too much pressure with the squee gee.
It happend than that the cloth lost contact to the blan at uneven places (esp with handshaped surfboards) and it kind of rebounded.
Especially at thinner sharper rails it also likes to loose contact and you get air pockets underneath, pinholes and all those calamities.
I learned a lot from surfboard glassing videos although they have excessive resin use, they do it very gently as a last step. When the glass is fully wet they cut it down to the wanted overlap and then stick it to the rail. As said from center/widest part to tip and tail is essential.

An earlier friend who learned that business professionally at Lufthansa warf, thought of the squee gee as medieval crap and only used special paint rolers and brushes. So i did in earlier windsurfers and it was indeed better (but much slower and more waste).


Dirk


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