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Double braid yes or no?

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Herman
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Double braid yes or no?

Postby Herman » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:34 am

Just from doing my own repairs and looking at the forum it seems to me that using double braid is generally not good for some kiting applications. The idea of having an abrasive resistant and higher braid count outer over a dyneema core sounds good but in practice may not be that effective.

By definition the outer is going to be reasonably thin and if it is in a running application the outer will ruck and be subject to more wear than just a single braid. This results in premature wear, exposing a thinner core than the equivalent single braid and possibly causing jamming problems. I have noticed this happening with wheels as well as sliders.

I think the only time I might use double braid is for sewn bridle lines. Just shooting the breeze and wandering if anybody has reached different conclusions?
Last edited by Herman on Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Double braid yes or no?

Postby Pemba » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:15 pm

I can't really speak from experience but what you say makes sense. Also, once the outer layer is damaged a bit in a double braid, wear accelerates when it starts catches on things. Single braid less so I would think. On a boat, uninformed as I am, I like double braid because ropes get cooked in the sun. With double braid you can assume the core is OK as long as the outer layer is intact. Single braid can break all of a sudden even without significant visible wear. This off course has little to do with the point you are making since I don't think UV contributes significantly to the deterioration of kite lines, at least not compared to physical wear.

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Re: Double braid yes or no?

Postby knot_moving » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:22 am

I used to use double braid for depower lines, but no more. First I think they are overkill from weight perspective. Second is you have to be very careful how you finish off and bury the cover at the bar end, otherwise it can catch when you try to release (ask me how I found this out!!!)

I do have a roll of thin spyderline double braid that I use for bridles where a pulley rides along the bridle line. Not sure I really need it or not, but since I have it, I use it.

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Re: Double braid yes or no?

Postby oregonkiter » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:12 pm

I tried double braid depower lines many years ago. Once the cover starts to go, the rest goes in short order

Herman
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Re: Double braid yes or no?

Postby Herman » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:00 pm

Thanks for the above replies. Another point occurred to me regarding the rucking of the outer possibility causing a wear point in a pulley runner or bar dugout. When rigging by sowing or splicing it is probably beneficial to make sure the casing is stretched out so it does not go slack over the core when in use, therefore being less likely to ruck.

[ Oddly enough this cerebral exercise started when I acquired a second hand kite with damaged pulley runner and was deciding how to replace the double braid runner. When I looked at the pigtail on the runner to my surprise it was just a sown loop of similar but smaller diameter double braid. No splice, and no larks head. It had obviously seen a few years service and was from a reputable manufacturer. That and thinking about kite attachment points makes me marvel at the strength of stitching done properly. ]

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Re: Double braid yes or no?

Postby alpaia » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:00 pm

Hello thanks for sharing the experience with douuble braid vs single dyneema braid.
I find the premature wear of depower rope ennoying so I am trying a sleeved version.

To avoid the issues you mentionned (if the sleeve goes loose & bunches on the the depower rope, release fails)
I tried the following :
-core is 4mm dyneema which has enough resistance on its own, even if it wer exposed
-sleeve is polyester (low friction) with tight weave
-the dyneema is spliced - splice blocked with stiches
-the sleeve is feathered and spliced into itself, and held by a very thight with "noeud de capucin"
(sorry I don'y have the english name for it but it is meant to hold a splice for instance just below the eye)

Hope I'll get more mileage out of the depower rope without issues, time will tell

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Re: Double braid yes or no?

Postby Herman » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:19 pm

Good luck with your trial. I suppose the only complete answer is to say it depends on the double braid used and how well it is rigged. My harness runner is 5mm with a 3mm core that I inserted myself, used with a wheel it has lasted ages. Arguably you could say that is a DIY double braid.

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Re: Double braid yes or no?

Postby alpaia » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:22 pm

Yes it is DIY double braid but more just sleeving over the dyneema core that makes all the resistance, so not necessary to include the sleeve in the splice for restance.
Double braid rope relies both on core and outer sleeve for resistance and is much more difficult to splice properly, to do it you need to pull slack on the sleeve and pull out the core pull it back in etc... not possible on a depower rope that is say around 1m to get enough slack in the sleeve.
So in short much easier to pick 4mm dyneema, splice it and put a cover over - making sure it is tight and well blocked at both ends.


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