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Bar build; critique me please!

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alpaia
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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby alpaia » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:35 pm

I tried a diy version of the brm system half convinced, for light wind days, I must say I like it in the end.

The advantage is the absence of Y splitter, the two front lines are loaded, on is attached to te QR pin , the other to the ring.

The potential issue is that the pull release if activated accidentally, you lose the kite, that could cause an accident.

So I like the simplicity but it is a bit of a liability - looking for a way to improve this...

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby knot_moving » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:42 pm

merl wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:34 pm
The trick with Evan's rope stopper is to make the "eye" pretty small, and to splice in an extra bit of line into the loop of the safety line to make it a little thicker. Then I think there is little chance of it pulling through. I have had more problems with line pulling through a stopper ball to be honest..
Got it - getting bag ready to convert another bar & I will use that.
Thanks

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby Jyoder » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:44 pm

Can you take simplicity too far?

Flag out is overrated IMO. :cool2: 200+ hours on this bar. 7-30+ knots.
1FD26B16-C3B4-4AF5-A838-227E23F70807.jpeg
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edt
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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby edt » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:01 pm

I understand why people take off floaties it's for looks. But they are very useful. They weigh almost nothing and reduce your chance of a line wrap death loop immensely. So you pay a pretty big price using a floatless bar. I'm fine with people riding leashless. That one I do understand. There are some spots for instance big wave locations where it's useless to flag out. Your only option is full release. As for riding a bat without a qr at all I've seen that before but it's of course dangerous. Silke gorde died in 2002 when her kite got tangled and looped to her death. There were no qrs back then and the power of the kites was more than she could fight against to unhook. I'm not sure why some kiters like riding without a qr at all but some like it. The one instance where I approve of a bar without a qr is mountain gliding. There you never want the qr to activate.

If you're an old salt making these minimal bars I think it's fine. You understand the risks. What I don't like is how new kiters copy these minimal bars. They love the minimal look and don't understand anything about risks. Then of course they get into trouble and there's no way out for them. They deathloop until they hit something.
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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby Nelis » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:40 pm

merl wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:34 pm
The trick with Evan's rope stopper is to make the "eye" pretty small, and to splice in an extra bit of line into the loop of the safety line to make it a little thicker. Then I think there is little chance of it pulling through. I have had more problems with line pulling through a stopper ball to be honest..
Yeah, this is crucial I think. I got this from the other thread.

I got the line in, so see what I can do this weekend.

The floater debate is also interesting. What about stiffening leaderlines for the purpose of less tangle risk?

I’m very safety conscious (by occupation) so I take all concerns to heart. Thanks for all contributions so far!

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby Jyoder » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:50 pm

One common aspect of every minimalist bar I see is extended throw range. I rode a standard production bar the other day and couldn’t believe how confining it was to have such a short throw. The feeling of having the bar sheeted out as far as it can go and still having a strong pull from the kite was terrifying and felt very unsafe, especially walking on land.

On a bar with the correct amount of extended throw, letting go of the bar depowers the kite so much that the risk of lofting and deathloop is completely mitigated in normal conditions with normal kite sizing.

Some people like the bar sheeting upper limit to maintain kite power but to me that means you’re trusting your reaction time to activate flag out or QR to save you in an event and that human reaction time factor sucks. After a few years of kiting on diy minimalist bars, I’ll take the inconvenience of having to pull the center line to reach the bar after I let go of it over that trapped feeling of a dangerous stopper limit.
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edt
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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby edt » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:34 pm

I like short throw diy bars. I don't like having the kite at noon with the bar all the way out when the wind picks up. I would rather have the kite near the water and edge hard.

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby knot_moving » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:50 pm

Nelis wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:40 pm

The floater debate is also interesting. What about stiffening leaderlines for the purpose of less tangle risk?

I’m very safety conscious (by occupation) so I take all concerns to heart. Thanks for all contributions so far!
I might try using 2 sizes of PU tubing - a 3ft thin tube with a 1ft thicker length around it and that is attached to the bar, with steering lines running thru middle.

Too lazy to go look but I think maybe evans bars have pu tubing on steering line leaders? Would help somewhat - not as robust as thick molded floater leaders but better than nothing

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby alpaia » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:50 pm

Thanks edt to remind about safety it is true that people who learnt kiting in recent years including myslef could take unneccessary risk with "minimalist" stuff forgetting about the reliability of proven qr systems.

I also agree with the extended bar throw acting as a first safety as it fully depowers the kite.

Both are compatible I use a bar with a proven iron heart QR, with short rope slider, and extended throw it was a simple enough customization without compromizing safety

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Re: Bar build; critique me please!

Postby downunder » Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:07 am

edt wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:01 pm
I understand why people take off floaties it's for looks. But they are very useful. They weigh almost nothing and reduce your chance of a line wrap death loop immensely. So you pay a pretty big price using a floatless bar. I'm fine with people riding leashless. That one I do understand. There are some spots for instance big wave locations where it's useless to flag out. Your only option is full release. As for riding a bat without a qr at all I've seen that before but it's of course dangerous. Silke gorde died in 2002 when her kite got tangled and looped to her death. There were no qrs back then and the power of the kites was more than she could fight against to unhook. I'm not sure why some kiters like riding without a qr at all but some like it. The one instance where I approve of a bar without a qr is mountain gliding. There you never want the qr to activate.

If you're an old salt making these minimal bars I think it's fine. You understand the risks. What I don't like is how new kiters copy these minimal bars. They love the minimal look and don't understand anything about risks. Then of course they get into trouble and there's no way out for them. They deathloop until they hit something.
floaties are just that. for floating the bar.

Lines can wrap way more with floaties if they are not designed right - like with some major products.

Free moving floaties can wrap the same like no floaties at all. I would like to know why we think oversized floaties do not wrap?

I think the biggest cause of death loop is wrapping the bar around the hook. For sure using a slider stops this, but thats oranges with apples comparison.

Bars are designed to sell, and sell well. One can ride with a wooden bar for $5 and still be safe. Or die with most expensive gear.

Same with the release. Sorry man, both proven on my local.

D.


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