Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Tubercle wings and my moulding process

Here you can exchange your experience and datas about your home build boards
dirk8037
Medium Poster
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:57 am
Kiting since: 2000
Gear: xRide, Evo, Boost2, Religion MK8, Alpine
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Tubercle wings and my moulding process

Postby dirk8037 » Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:19 pm

Hi Fluidity,
How do you approach the wing design?
Do you take a foil and add the tubercles so they are bigger/thicker than then main foil
or do you rather carve out the in between the tubercles so you have a thinner edge than normal.

Cheers Dirk

User avatar
fluidity
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Weight: 115kg
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Transitioned from Kiting to Wingsurfing late 2019. Building my own foils from my CAD designs and 3D prints, CNC machine.
Brand Affiliation: Designer of hydrofoils and many other things.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Tubercle wings and my moulding process

Postby fluidity » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:33 am

dirk8037 wrote:
Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:19 pm
Hi Fluidity,
How do you approach the wing design?
Do you take a foil and add the tubercles so they are bigger/thicker than then main foil
or do you rather carve out the in between the tubercles so you have a thinner edge than normal.

Cheers Dirk
Hi Dirk,
I think I do it differently than most other people. There are a couple of good programs out, finfoil.io and winghopper for example but I do my design with openscad which is a programmer's 3D design tool. So I create my wing surfaces from conditional equasions. There are a lot of sine waves in my wings. The tubercles for instance are currently a simple application of a repeating sine wave to the chord with no adjustment for thickness, it follows the chord proportionally. The sweep, the taper, linear and sine functions.The wingtips, a power from a set % of span function. The mid chord thickness for fuselage, a sine wave applied with adjustable limits, but only from a selected distance from the centre of the wing and inwards. There are aircraft wing modelling programs out in which you can likely do very similar things as with finfoil.io and winghopper but I've not investigated. I like that I have complete control of the algorithms so ultimately I have no limits, so long as I can conceptualise a requirement, I can design it. Today I spotted another programmer's design tool, cadquery. I'll download it and see how amenable it is to my sort of designing. Openscad doesn't do 3D fileting, cadquery is supposed to work with a more advanced rendering engine.

I believe the key with tubercles is to break up wing partial stalls to provide a chance for recovery before a stall spreads to the whole wing. Most useful in turbulent and aerated waters which I'm sure humpback whales encounter regularly.
My latest wing doesn't have them but that's for 3 reasons: 1. ease of manufacture. 2. uniform structural loading(1.33 meter span, short chord). 3. I'm designing it purely for pumping efficiency.
Graham
These users thanked the author fluidity for the post:
Dontsink (Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:23 am)
Rating: 3.03%

dirk8037
Medium Poster
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:57 am
Kiting since: 2000
Gear: xRide, Evo, Boost2, Religion MK8, Alpine
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Tubercle wings and my moulding process

Postby dirk8037 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:21 pm

Hi,
yes, with given section and thickness that is indeed an option too.
I am working with Fusion360. Here I combine 2-3 sections with paths and use the Loft feature.
The algorithm in the background has the nasty habit to produce something they call "selfcrossing vectors" or so, when the curve of the leading path is to tight. Then it sais no!
For classic wings it works fine though, once you get a feeling for it.
Therefore I have my doubts that it will work when I apply a sine waved path for the leading edge. I do not think It can handle it. I was rather set to use this form feature, where you can pull arround the surface. But I will give it a try.
Anyway I have to get done with the traditional models I have designed yet.
FinFoil is indeed very nice but was only for fins back then (flat and one direction and very grainy) so I never saw it as an option, but I guess its more mature now.
Since I have access to a CNC, Fusion is quite comfi with the CAM section and I have the result there with in an afternoon.

Absolutely wicked is your use of polyester and glass. Especially since the 3D print is most likely only graduially more rigid than foam. Did you ever compared with Carbon - riding wise?
Realistically about my abilities I propably wont need any high end cloth for some time. I also will give that a try for the next foam based core.

Thanks Dirk

dirk8037
Medium Poster
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:57 am
Kiting since: 2000
Gear: xRide, Evo, Boost2, Religion MK8, Alpine
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Tubercle wings and my moulding process

Postby dirk8037 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:30 pm

Hah,
its working ideed. Although it seems that the top is not even but also i bit waved sincs the orientation is the sinused leading edge.
Looks a bit like a 50s military airdynamics wet dream :rollgrin:
With my working pace and backlog nost likely next year :roll:
Attachments
2022-04-26 15_50_10-Autodesk Fusion 360 (Personal - Not for Commercial Use).png
2022-04-26 15_51_30-Autodesk Fusion 360 (Personal - Not for Commercial Use).png

User avatar
fluidity
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Weight: 115kg
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Transitioned from Kiting to Wingsurfing late 2019. Building my own foils from my CAD designs and 3D prints, CNC machine.
Brand Affiliation: Designer of hydrofoils and many other things.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Tubercle wings and my moulding process

Postby fluidity » Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:27 am

dirk8037 wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 6:30 pm
Hah,
its working ideed. Although it seems that the top is not even but also i bit waved sincs the orientation is the sinused leading edge.
Looks a bit like a 50s military airdynamics wet dream :rollgrin:
With my working pace and backlog nost likely next year :roll:
Great progress!
Your self crossing vectors sound like experiences I've had sometimes with my method too. Just because you can create a mathematical shape doesn't mean that it will work in the real world. For a really simple example, you could do a 20mm long cylinder that starts at 10mm radius at one end and -10mm radius at the other end. The result would be two cones with their points intersecting but one would have an external skin facing out as determined by the sequence of triangle vertex drawing direction on the outside and the other one would have an internal skin facing out. In STLs the sequence of triangle point plotting in the saved file represents an inside or outside skin.

User avatar
PugetSoundKiter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:53 pm
Style: Wake TT, Strapless Surfboard, Landboard
Gear: Cabrinha, Ocean Rodeo, Slingshot, Naish, North, Pansh, Ozone, HQ, Peter Lynn
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 111 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Tubercle wings

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:50 am

2024 and no tubercle hydrofoil wings? Seems like there are performance advantages that could be utilized. Wondering if current design tools, analysis tools or manufacturing processes don’t support the shaping? Additional production costs? Marketing risks too high? Or maybe prototype testing identified unacceptable trade offs?

+2021 thread:
viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2410835

User avatar
fluidity
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Weight: 115kg
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Transitioned from Kiting to Wingsurfing late 2019. Building my own foils from my CAD designs and 3D prints, CNC machine.
Brand Affiliation: Designer of hydrofoils and many other things.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Tubercle wings

Postby fluidity » Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:57 am

PugetSoundKiter wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:50 am
2024 and no tubercle hydrofoil wings? Seems like there are performance advantages that could be utilized. Wondering if current design tools, analysis tools or manufacturing processes don’t support the shaping? Additional production costs? Marketing risks too high? Or maybe prototype testing identified unacceptable trade offs?

+2021 thread:
viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2410835
I guess I'll find out. My latest wings are very different. I zeroed the tubercles algorithm and progressively thinned towards the ends with some twist. 2 painted over with pva mould release and ready for infusion tomorrow!
These users thanked the author fluidity for the post:
PugetSoundKiter (Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:01 am)
Rating: 3.03%

Onda
Frequent Poster
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:12 am
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: Baltic Sea / North Sea (Germany)
Favorite Beaches: Wijk aan Zee (NL)
Ouddorp (NL)
Norre Vorupor (DK)
Heiligenhafen (DE)
Style: strictly unstrapped, mainly foiling
Gear: Slingshot / Infexion / Alpine / F-One / CORE / Firewire / Duotone
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 99 times
Contact:

Re: Tubercle wings and my moulding process

Postby Onda » Wed Jan 10, 2024 11:51 am

Hi guys,
have you seen this? https://foilandco.eu/product/complete-silk-foil/
Tubercles and inverted wingtip curves (winglets).
Very informative, long video from the designers further down the page:

Some very good foilers (including Mr. Bennetts) are very, very positive about the Silk foil.

I am super excited about these new developments. But too poor to afford a new foil set now... :roll:
These users thanked the author Onda for the post:
PugetSoundKiter (Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:36 am)
Rating: 3.03%

User avatar
fluidity
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Weight: 115kg
Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Transitioned from Kiting to Wingsurfing late 2019. Building my own foils from my CAD designs and 3D prints, CNC machine.
Brand Affiliation: Designer of hydrofoils and many other things.
Location: Porirua New Zealand
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: Tubercle wings and my moulding process

Postby fluidity » Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:12 pm

Interesting interview Onda. One piece undercarriage and thin foils has to be great for speed. French so they had local Takuma Kujira to compare with. Or maybe same designer? The foils look very similar.

User avatar
PugetSoundKiter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:53 pm
Style: Wake TT, Strapless Surfboard, Landboard
Gear: Cabrinha, Ocean Rodeo, Slingshot, Naish, North, Pansh, Ozone, HQ, Peter Lynn
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 111 times
Been thanked: 79 times

Re: Tubercle wings and my moulding process

Postby PugetSoundKiter » Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:47 am

Thanks, nice find :thumb:



Not a kite foil, but impressive performance and promising it may crossover someday, and become affordable too.


Return to “Gear Builders”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 104 guests