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Single line flag conversion for OR Fusion bar

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Benson
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Single line flag conversion for OR Fusion bar

Postby Benson » Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:23 pm

I'm thinking about converting my 2013 OR Fusion bar (mini-fifth) to single line flagout. My idea is to buy the Ozone trimmer bracket and stopper ball. Can I just install the trimmer bracket in place of the original splitter/swivel, connect the 3mm safety line to one of the front lines, thread on the stopper ball, and use the original below-the-bar de-power strap and pulley to trim, leaving the mini-fifth in place?

The new splitter would be 3-4cm shorter than the original, so I think I would thread a short length of thick Amsteel (5-6mm?) through the eye of the trimmer bracket and tie the ends together to make a pigtail knot that the 4mm mini-fifth line would connect to. I found a study that compares the strength of bend-type knots for climbing, but the knots are loaded differently than the knot in this application would be. Is there a better solution than a double overhand bend?
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Herman
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Re: Single line flag conversion for OR Fusion bar

Postby Herman » Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:07 am

Didn’t understand your description. This is just a warning about something you have not mentioned.

As far as I know, all below the bar single line flag systems really need spliced flying lines rather than stitched. Some systems will flag ok with stitched loop fly lines but nearly all or all risk jamming on the stitched end as the line is tension back up on the re ride. This can cause a very dangerous asymmetry in the front lines with looping kites etc. Can happen with just slack line handling of the bar as well as post flagging!

I would expect the ozone stopper to have this problem even if you are leashing above the bar. The weight of the leash will pull the fly line through fairly easily imho which would exacerbate the danger.

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Re: Single line flag conversion for OR Fusion bar

Postby evan » Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:40 am

It all depends on the size of the hole in the chickenloop. Two line flagout line doesn't need to pass through the system where a single line flagout does. So make sure it will go through smoothly both when flagging and resetting.

Ozone bracket + stopper needs a spliced front line. Sleeved won't fit through the stopper. So make sure the original lines can be spliced or you need to replace at least the bottom 6m with a splice able line.

It isn't clear what the 4cm adjustment is for, can't you just shorten the back lines a bit?

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Re: Single line flag conversion for OR Fusion bar

Postby Herman » Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:27 am

If we are talking about an old chicken loop which does not accommodate a flag line, and where the fly lines are stitched! A quick and easy way to convert would be to make up an old school system of 2 SS rings. (Use a Velcro tab to keep the rings together for when no tension in fly line). Easiest if low V and where you can shorten rear leaders to bring the SS rings low so that you can clip the leash direct to the bottom SS ring…….

I use figs of 8 for pigs. Occasionally I stitch a knot for added security but that is rare.

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Re: Single line flag conversion for OR Fusion bar

Postby Benson » Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:06 am

Herman wrote: If we are talking about an old chicken loop which does not accommodate a flag line, and where the fly lines are stitched! A quick and easy way to convert would be to make up an old school system of 2 SS rings. (Use a Velcro tab to keep the rings together for when no tension in fly line). Easiest if low V and where you can shorten rear leaders to bring the SS rings low so that you can clip the leash direct to the bottom SS ring…….
My lines are sleeved and stitched. The original 3mm safety line runs from the splitter/swivel down through the bar and through a 13mm ID ring that is attached to the side of the QR. Pictures attached.

If I already have this safety line running from the splitter to the QR, is there any advantage in lowering the split?

I'm still trying to figure out the most affordable way to end up with a safe bar, so if I can leave the original lines intact, maybe I could restore it to factory configuration and sell it later.
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Re: Single line flag conversion for OR Fusion bar

Postby Herman » Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:50 am

There is no need to lower the split if you are going to run the flag line through the CL ring in the photo. Indeed if you found a suitable stopper you could probably just use that against the ring in the splitter. The bulk of the handshake knot, fly line stitched loop to flag line spliced loop, would probably pass through the CL ring in photo and therefore that system would probably flag ok. However, the bulk of the handshake and blunt end in a stitched loop could make the re ride/recovery from slack line pull through sticky and may cause dangerous jamming. Personally I would not run a system like that with stitched loops but my evaluation is based on experience with chicken loops with narrow tunnels through the middle rather than rings.

Mini 5ths have significant advantages but need kites/bridles designed for it as well as cons. However the longer bridles are more vulnerable to tip wraps. If you change to single line flag you can use the bar with other kites but this does not shorten the bridles on the original kites. Mini 5th may not be a wise choice for the freestyler slacking lines in tricks and bailing out, also you may have more residual power on flag but no more than walking the fronts. All the above just imho etc.

Also note that kites with long bridles need more care when setting up self launching to avoid tip wraps. Some have bungee lines on the bridle lines to help with this imho.


That swivel will probably have too much friction to prevent flag/center line twists when looping and so you will need to loop both ways to keep flag line free etc as you don’t have below the bar swivel! Ozone bracket previously mentioned has no swivel!

Find someone experienced to check out what you do as bars have to be right and properly tuned after any modification.

PS: Whether or not the splitter block jams the flag connection handshake in place with a reasonable amount of friction,which makes slack line handling a little different, and whether you want a swivel should be considerations if you want to change the splitter block!

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Re: Single line flag conversion for OR Fusion bar

Postby Benson » Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:23 am

evan wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:40 am
It isn't clear what the 4cm adjustment is for, can't you just shorten the back lines a bit?
I have a second knot on the back line pigtail that's 6cm shorter.
Herman wrote: There is no need to lower the split if you are going to run the flag line through the CL ring in the photo. Indeed if you found a suitable stopper you could probably just use that against the ring in the splitter. The bulk of the handshake knot, fly line stitched loop to flag line spliced loop, would probably pass through the CL ring in photo and therefore that system would probably flag ok. However, the bulk of the handshake and blunt end in a stitched loop could make the re ride/recovery from slack line pull through sticky and may cause dangerous jamming. Personally I would not run a system like that with stitched loops but my evaluation is based on experience with chicken loops with narrow tunnels through the middle rather than rings.

Mini 5ths have significant advantages but need kites/bridles designed for it as well as cons. However the longer bridles are more vulnerable to tip wraps. If you change to single line flag you can use the bar with other kites but this does not shorten the bridles on the original kites. Mini 5th may not be a wise choice for the freestyler slacking lines in tricks and bailing out, also you may have more residual power on flag but no more than walking the fronts. All the above just imho etc.

Also note that kites with long bridles need more care when setting up self launching to avoid tip wraps. Some have bungee lines on the bridle lines to help with this imho.


That swivel will probably have too much friction to prevent flag/center line twists when looping and so you will need to loop both ways to keep flag line free etc as you don’t have below the bar swivel! Ozone bracket previously mentioned has no swivel!

Find someone experienced to check out what you do as bars have to be right and properly tuned after any modification.

PS: Whether or not the splitter block jams the flag connection handshake in place with a reasonable amount of friction,which makes slack line handling a little different, and whether you want a swivel should be considerations if you want to change the splitter block!
From what I've read on other threads, it sounds like the mini-fifth Y is only useful as part of a two line safety. If I convert it to single line safety, will the Y configuration just make it harder to reach the front lines for self landing, light wind relaunch, etc?

Do the bridle bungees pull the bridles towards the center of the kite?

Is a below-the-bar swivel useful in a death loop or recovering from one?

My safety line is 3mm and my fly lines are around 1.5mm. The Ozone stopper ball has a 3mm hole. Will the safety line handshake knot be big enough to stop in the stopper?

I haven't found anyone selling just one spliced front line. The only 23m front line set I've found is from Infexion. Are there others?

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Re: Single line flag conversion for OR Fusion bar

Postby merl » Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:38 am

Benson wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:23 am

I haven't found anyone selling just one spliced front line. The only 23m front line set I've found is from Infexion. Are there others?
It is better to just cut off the grey loops on the front lines and resplice them yourself. Splicing is easy and a useful skill to learn. Do a search and you will find several videos. A brummel splice is the one to use if you don't have a sewing machine.

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Re: Single line flag conversion for OR Fusion bar

Postby Herman » Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:58 am

Single line flag can be high or low Y or just V. You have Identified the cons of high Y.

Bridle bungees do more or less what you said but I would not recommend you trying to create your own unless you have a LOT of experience.

Generally speaking swivels have too much friction to auto swivel. Below the bar allows you to move the swivel by hand nothing more imho. [Auto swivel can be achieved by two hole or angular center line covers that fit the bar holes and ceramic bearings, horrible concept imho! but some appear to love it!]

The handshake knot will be big enough, but maybe too big to jam in the stopper? If the handshake jams in the splitter block (jams but still pulls out under flagging tension) it will have less tangle tendency with slack line. Not so significant if it is a floating stopper ball that is going to run slack in any case.

If I was a beginner not self launching but hoping to re ride in the water after a release I would choose a mini5th rig&kite over a single line flag. Even more so if the choice was a single line flag on a kite with roll over bridle. Once you have had some lessons, buddy up with an experienced rider who can check and tune your old gear and go ride!!!!

As a beginner for death loop or being completely overpowered release qr asap, release everything if it does not stop. [If I am a downwind bystander I would rather be hit by a released kite than one powered and looping……]

Before you start modifying gear it might be wise to get more experience. You must also understand how to tune bars and kites before you modify so that you can check your work and appreciate what is critical to success!!
Last edited by Herman on Fri Jun 10, 2022 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Single line flag conversion for OR Fusion bar

Postby alpaia » Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:18 pm

I can only agree Herman safety first.
It took years for safety systems to be effective in every emergency situation,
Modifying and mixing parts can result in a qr that looks ok and jams when you badly need it.
Customizing gear can be cool but once you fully understand, some people use simplified qr systems like the brm type realease, but usually in underpowered situations and knowing the limitations.
Really hard to figure out everything that can go wrong in advance, especially when starting.
It is good to be creative but even better to be alive.


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