Sleeving kite lines

[azoele]

no issues done it for years. I always run thick line for10m tho, then when I switch from thick to regular, I can lark's head and this makes it easy to replace it later. You can't lark's head at 1 or 2 meters because the safety flag out system needs to run for longer than that. You'll also need to possibly replaceyour line that goes from the V to the chicken loop so it won't slip through. Test it thoroughly in light wind first.

No problem with the flagout line to the chicken loop.
I make it that myself too with 3mm dynema, and stitch (better: am learning ways to stitch) an elastic inside so it won't dangle around as soon as I trim.

In my bars I use either the Ozone "T" bracket with a ball, or I make a a dyneema "bullhorn" (similar to what KiteAttitude does) with a tiny ring at the end of the front line acting as safety and using a ball with it.

I think 3m is a little ridiculous you dont need it that thick. You don't want to make that line segment last 100 years when the rest of the control bar only lasts 10.

So what would be the thickness you'd recommend?
I am running 1.55/1.6mm SK99 lines for fronts and backs.

Thank you.

[Herman]

For lock stitching look ar YouTube - Sampson Rope: Lock Stiching. The vid shows a giant version which is similar to what I do. Instead of using stopper knots I use 3 turns/stitches. The takeaway is that you don’t need much. The stitches are only there to keep the tail in place when not under load. Your professional made lines with Brummell may actually have stitches that you have not noticed. The lock stitching on my line sets are not immediately obvious even though they don’t turn out as neat as those in the above vid.

PS Explaining things is not my forte, and so I doubt that your English is to blame.

[azoele]

Thank you Herman, the video was very clear and instructive.
I did a sample pigtail (a tentative: I buried both tails on over the other not to make it excessively long, do not know whether that is allowed) on 3mm dyneema and that was quite easy.

I also tried to lock stitch a flying line, but had two issues:

1) I could never be sure I was going around the full strands, most probably I was going through the fibers of a single strand, do not know if or to what extent does this damage it reducing breakloads)

2) they use knots to be buried on the huge rope, and I could do it on 3mm.
Don’t think I could on the 1.6mm dyneema.

Still, very useful, thank you!

[Herman]

In my experience, wear loop/loop pigs are often made short with the short buries butted against each other and machine stitched. Usually there is no Brummell. They work because you don’t need full line strength and the short bury has a lot of stitching. Also they look neat.

If you do not have a sowing m/c this is not the way to make pigs imho. Plus overlapping bury rather than butting them would open up the outer weave too much. Fibres vastly out of alignment with the main tension vector is a bad thing. (Complicated vector and stress analysis.)

Making a pig that has full bury + taper will be over 300mm long and longer still if you want the insurance of Brummells. It will also have a slight bottle neck appearance at the junction of the tapers that does not look aesthetically pleasing……. However they are easy to make and probably more sea worthy than the factory short neat ones. Personally I use 2.5 mm and I don’t think any additional drag is significant to me. Why do you think they need to be short?

Personally I suspect you may be overthinking needle damage but do not have any data or testing to support that. But as previously stated leave the stitches snug rather than tight. If you are new to this sort of thing it is natural to lack confidence in your work. Testing and use will eventually rectify this. Also look at what the manufacturer are doing and you will start to realise that with a bit of experience it is not difficult to make gear that is probably as, or even more, sea worthy than shop bought stuff.

If you really need your wear pigs to be short have a look for edt’s vid on universal pigs, but don’t use bigger than 2mm for these imho.

Understanding how things work with friction is probably the key. I will leave you in peace.

[galewarning]

@Jyoder,
Any experience with how much the JB L1 line shrinks over time?
Great price for bulk line!
TIA,
-Barry

...snip...
I use Jerry Brown line one hollow core spectra. Cheap to get in bulk compared to kite line and works great!

[alpaia]

@Herman yes agreed hand spliced pigtails end up 25 to 30cm with 2.5mm dyneema if not machine stitched and that is already shorter than the recomended bury length ( still a few stitches to block of course )
To avoid step at the butt junction in the center I overlap the two buried tails by 3-4cm, and taper them.

For the immense majority of normal people who just want to kite buying them for $15 is a good option

[edt]

So what would be the thickness you'd recommend?
I am running 1.55/1.6mm SK99 lines for fronts and backs.

Thank you.

2mm. dont forget the strength of the line goes up as a cross section to 2mm line is 2 squared over 1.55 squared or 1.7 times stronger. 3mm line is 4 times stronger than 1.55mm line that's excessive. dont forget to test everything in light wind first. I like 3mm line to replacel the safety line that goes from the V to chicken loop. at 3mm it's purely for abrasion resistance as that part has the most wear in your control bar, more than the lines above the V.

[Jyoder]

@Jyoder,
Any experience with how much the JB L1 line shrinks over time?
Great price for bulk line!
TIA,
-Barry

...snip...
I use Jerry Brown line one hollow core spectra. Cheap to get in bulk compared to kite line and works great!

I have not had any shrinking issues. The line does need to be stretched as it does not come pre-stretched. I do this by just making the bar so front and back lines can be swapped and after a few powered sessions the kite stretched the lines for me and I swap front and backs so it stretched the others too. But before this I tie to a tree and stretch the lines with body weight and that does most of the stretching.

[Herman]

To avoid step at the butt junction in the center I overlap the two buried tails by 3-4cm, and taper them.

For the immense majority of normal people who just want to kite buying them for $15 is a good option

I now understand the overlap you are using, looks like a good idea if not too tricky to achieve smoothness. I have seen test data on non tapered and tapered splices and the strength gain by tapering was significant. No doubt a complete elimination of the bottle neck would be even stronger ……..kudos!!

[azoele]

Not to beat a dead horse, but:
could something like this be feasible to protect the loop in the kitelines without stitching?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=0gkFk8DVsoM

In the video they make a loop perfectly covered by a cover, and just with splicing.
I can't seem to replicate it with my covered dyneema (Magic Pro, Liros), as the cover is too tightly knit and I can't extract the core.
But maybe with kite sleeves it might be possible.