Interesting Judging Discussions

[Toby]

Talking about risk factor, a head judge told me, that a Kiteloop will count more than a Front 1080 Boardoff, because it is a higher risk.

I am sure all judges can do a Kiteloop with a 7, 9 etc in 30 knots. And none can do a 1080 Boardoff.

A kiteloops needs balls, once, then you know how it works and it is just pulling the bar.

I have many friends who do kiteloops, and cannot even do a boardoff.

Really, more risk to land that trick?

Interesting where this discussion will lead to next year...

[Awn]

We were discussing judging for airstlye events in our local spit today. We came up with the following criteria.
First criteria
Airstlye is all about going high. So every trick will get points according tomhow high the trick is, for example if backroll was 10 points, 5 of those points would be hight. Low 1 point medium 2.5 high 5 points.

Second criteria

We give every simple tricks a point system. For example back roll 10 points, board off 15 points.
And from no on we assen points if you combin each element.
So if you do back roll you get 10 points. If you do back roll board off you get 25 points pluse bouns 5 points for two elements. The more elements you have in one trick the higher the bouns

So back to your post Toby, if some one with our system does a kite loop he will get a big trick scor but the one dowing 1080 board off will get a much higher score

What do you think?

[Toby]

sounds logical.
but you need to consider execution, landing, style etc as well. That does make a difference too.
You can dangle a rotation or make it energetic with style.

Height should also not be all. Of course, important, but what about Jesus Walks etc? Such cool tricks that make the crowd happy too.
Also transitions.
Airstyle is also about diversity, to make sure we don't loose all these elements like Freestyle did.

[Westozzy]

Agreed. A well judged competition must bring together a number of different elements. Overall a forward 1080 board off with some decent height, style, execution and landing with fluidity and some speed should always pip a kite loop. There is not a whole lot technically behind a kite loop, but there does exist a relative risk factor though...that being said the more proficient you are the less a risk factor there is when looping.

It's a work in progress, I'm sure the competition and judging will evolve over time.

I still think the split is too high. 70/30 ...nah I'd go more 60/40 and really make crew push the technical side of big air. Even reward those those that do handle passes up there and those that vary their board and body work.

Let's face it, loading and jumping big..even with a kite loop can be considered the bare basics for these pros.

But Toby the result doesn't matter people have been exposed once again to the core roots of this sport and have been entertained. That equals growing exposure and interest in the sport, which will eventually fund young riders to really push the boundaries in all facets of the sport and not just wakestyle.

That's the winner here.

[longwhitecloud]

Having competed and judged, the most important thing I reckon when competing is that you know before you enter how things will be judged due to differences in opinion/ vast subjectivity. And whoever wins on the day is the champion regardless of the fact that someone may thing someone else is a better rider - this is competitive riding - take years for some people to get to grips with this.


The risk in a trick like 1080 boardoff vs kiteloop would come down to wind strength, how aggressive it was and even kite size/turning speed (ie risk at height of looping kite accidently - and u slamming into water- a big deal - see":that slam" at redbull - jesee i think it was ) - its liek this risk of full on hard crash vs gently parachuting down after fail......

Thing is, hairstyle is really focused on air tricks and there is so much more...

I'm making this suggestion - a hooked in only competition - never been done is recent times - and more points for aggressive, hard outness, speed. f#$$% that would be fun to watch, and it would really put the emphasis on a very wide variety of riding and originality.... i have seen some siiick hooked in riding in the southern hemisphere - balls out/ hard out...

Send me a pm Mr Branson and i will get it all organised..... i need a job right now...

post the heats if they are available...

[Westozzy]

Yeh give us some video footage and lets do a mock judge...maybe come up with a decent scoring system. I wanna see that one foot board off in boots...!! Classic!

Be interesting to see what the dude above comes up with.

[edt]

"Kiteloop will count more than a Front 1080 Boardoff, because it is a higher risk"

that makes no sense. tricks arent supposed to be judged on risk factor if that's the case then to win all you need to do is cut a nick in your bridle. At any moment your kite might go into a death loop huge risk factor!

they should be judged on difficulty. that's how it works in all artistic sports, gymastics, skateboarding, snowboarding you name it.

[longwhitecloud]

Sports are whatever you want them to be really. The vastly more popular sides of skateboarding and snowboarding - tricks riding is risk based with more emphasis on that in judging points. It would be very difficult to do a board off and balance the board on your head and take a lot of practice and dedication but would be of very little consequences if you failed - this is the differentiation.

There is still the opportunity for an incredibly difficult and original trick to beat out a more risky one - but the risky one would be not super risky combined with not being at a super high level - there starts the subjective debate....

[Westozzy]

Risk has to be a factor. But overall, with a rigorous judgement platform then a 1080 FR with board off should beat a powered loop except maybe if the guys well above his kite. Then the risk factor would get more points... Might then be a closer call between the two.

It's taking into account all the factors. If risk alone was the call made to judge the 1080 against a loop then they need to consider their criteria. Probably what they had in front of them and after moderation maybe the loop should have won. Here in lies the next stage of judgement development.

I've only judged surfing comps and they can do your head in. There's always a subjective element with objective objectives.

How many people did a 1080 FR board off and how many loops were chucked down. That will give you some indication of the so called risk. Lol!!!

That's what gets me about the knockers. Strap yourself to an 18m kite and try these tricks yourself or ya just living in try hard bullshit world in your own head.

[Toby]

sure, know what they judge when you enter a comp.

I started to not care anymore what judges score, I go out for the people and listen to the wows and the applause. That's what counts for me. Therefore I also do a barefoot slide here and there to entertain the crowd, knowing it won't count.

And if I advanced, great, one more heat to do a show! But don't expect me to do the same tricks over and over...variety is my show!

But still, I found the arguments interesting, so had to post it here to give you something to discuss about.