Airstyle kite size in 25 knots

[Westozzy]

Interesting feedback. Grunt is probably not the best word to use, hence why I called it forward flying grunt. It it the interplay of the inefficient thick leading edge of the dyno working counter to its forward flying aspect driven momentum that creates that really good balance or what I would call useable static grunt. The ability to really edge against it (without it flying to the edge of the window and out the power zone), and yet when one has to get it around to depower it out a bit, it can be pushed further for speed control. And for some reason the 18 dyno did it better than the 16... Weird.

But the 'grunt' from the rebel is delivered more by its propensity to sit back in the window, it has less aspect. And yeh it's harder to drive it to the edge for speed control..and sometimes when loading under full power once sent as well. I think the balance is not quite right, it needs a splash more aspect or some bridal voodoo...but they made it for the masses didn't they, easy flying.

But all that being said it's a loaded fifth without bridals (as such) and that gives you a very short throw movement to change the angle of attack. Hence why you can take this out in higher winds than it's older cousin the 2011 dyno 18m.

So...I always pull a bit of trim on it the beach depending on wind conditions, until I see it fly forward a little more. (First thing my go to man noticed when he flew it, he said man it's not flying forward enough and trimmed it as such).
Then it starts to get that balance a little better I have been talking about. One thing that strikes you is how damn stable and forgiving it is..almost impossible to overfly, much more than the dyno which was also surprisingly good. Again they made it as Toby said right from the start an easy to fly rebel! But the kind of guys that will strap themselves to an 18m in 20 knots for airstyle are not your regular joe blows. Hope north are listening.

So try the trim thingy it works.

Also found the heavy bar setting excruciatingly heavy. Ride on soft now...which speeds it up, which sucks. But I have learnt to adjust.

Still the jury is out in my mind whether this 75kg body should even be on an 18m wing like this. Gonna strap some diving weights to my body...lol!!!

Enjoyed out chat....

Oh hang on. What has got me scratching my head though is this new dyno. It has light bar pressure as you would expect, flies forward as you would expect, but stuff me it has some really good static grunt for loading against??? And it's got a really small leading edge and stupidly small struts. Also noticed the fifth is kind of semi loaded. It slack when depowering the throw, like is taking no load, but when you pull 3 quarters of the way it's loaded man, then fully loaded when pulled in..it's kind of an in between fifth! And the bridal leading attachments points are as shown in the weirdest place, infact the whole bridalling build is really weird.

Verdict...bridalling has far more to do with performance than the leading edge thickness.

Be interesting to see how it flies in a bigger size. The canopy is not as rock solid, it moves about a bit up there...

Oh to add...it's been a long time since I've got on a kite and gone holly horse shit batman this kite is bang on (since the edges actually). The rebel 12 was kind of like putting on comfy shoes, just does everything so easily and well, but this kite has me watching the damn weather all day waiting like an excited child before Christmas to get back on it..becuase I know I was only extracting 60 off percent of potential, boost/hang wise in those winds on its first flight. You know when you have left some goodies in the cupboard hey...

[Zkatez]

Interesting feedback. Grunt is probably not the best word to use, hence why I called it forward flying grunt. It it the interplay of the inefficient thick leading edge of the dyno working counter to its forward flying aspect driven momentum that creates that really good balance or what I would call useable static grunt. The ability to really edge against it (without it flying to the edge of the window and out the power zone), and yet when one has to get it around to depower it out a bit, it can be pushed further for speed control. And for some reason the 18 dyno did it better than the 16... Weird.

But the 'grunt' from the rebel is delivered more by its propensity to sit back in the window, it has less aspect. And yeh it's harder to drive it to the edge for speed control..and sometimes when loading under full power once sent as well. I think the balance is not quite right, it needs a splash more aspect or some bridal voodoo...but they made it for the masses didn't they, easy flying.

But all that being said it's a loaded fifth without bridals (as such) and that gives you a very short throw movement to change the angle of attack. Hence why you can take this out in higher winds than it's older cousin the 2011 dyno 18m.

So...I always pull a bit of trim on it on here beach depending on wind conditions, until I see it fly forward a little more. (First thing my go to man noticed when he flew it, he said man it's not flying forward enough and trimmed it as such).
Then it starts to get that balance a little better I have been talking about. One thing that strikes you is how damn stable and forgiving it is..almost impossible to overfly, much more than the dyno which was also surprisingly good. Again they made it as Toby said right from the start an easy to fly rebel! But the kind of guys that will strap themselves to an 18m in 20 knots for airstyle are not your regular joe blows. Hope north are listening.

So try the trim thingy it works.

Also found the heavy bar setting excruciatingly heavy. Ride on soft now...which speeds it up, which sucks. But I have learnt to adjust.

Still the jury is out in my mind whether this 75kg body should even be on an 18m wing like this. Gonna strap some diving weights to my body...lol!!!

Enjoyed out chat....

Oh hang on. What has got me scratching my head though is this new dyno. It has light bar pressure as you would expect, flies forward as you would expect, but stuff me it has some really good static grunt for loading against??? And it's got a really small leading edge and stupidly small struts. Also noticed the fifth is kind of semi loaded. It slack when depowering the throw, like is taking no load, but when you pull 3 quarters of the way it's loaded man, then fully loaded when pulled in..it's kind of an in between fifth! And the bridal leading attachments points are as shown in the weirdest place, infact the whole bridalling build is really weird.


Verdict...bridalling has far more to do with performance than the leading edge thickness.

Be interesting to see how it flies in a bigger size. The canopy is not as rock solid, it moves about a bit up there...

I am forgetting the tech talk, for now, and will see what this 18m is gonna do for my kiting. Hope to get some more testriding done in better winds then I had so far, before shop wants it back. Very curious. no idea yet if it is the kite for me.

I recognize your doubt, about the 18m/78kg ratio. But I think the ratio for Toby, in the winds he is riding, must have been doubtfull for him to, (hardwork and struggling somewhere). My experience so far, has been that I had to put in the work. Meaning, that in the beginning, I could not get the hight. With lots of training (the fysical workout, besides the technic) it gets better. I do get higher. still not there. Seeing this last trailer of him (with his best of) is not very motivating for me at first. But we have to consider he has lots of great film footage and this is the best of, he has lots of session in perfect conditions (when he was out testing the rebel 18 this summer in europe he became pretty hopeless and was longing for his paradise spots). while we have to do with less sessions in our local conditions. This is nothing against Toby. After my initial demotivation, I will pursue my own level. He helped me get there. Few years a go I would have been content with just being able to do b-off. I would love to here something about hiss struggles though. Toby..was it alot of hard work, getting the hight and hang on the 18??
But about the ratio..I (with my weight) have simular experiences as Toby with the rebel 16m. To fast. You can argue that the ratio 18/93 might be more efficient than 18/75 or 16/75. You get the extra glide with 18, but you should get extra hight with 16/75. Probably more important is get a 18m which requires less power (Chrono is such a.kite). The rebel 18 is still a contender in my few. Don,t give up to easy. go for 20+. And share your experience. I am worried about the fact that it can be a beast all of a sudden. Dyno more reliable. That would be the work for North or whoever imo.

Oh. and about the tension on the 5th. (I feel I am saying this over and over here, without anyone responding. pardon me) But tension on the 5th is always from the Y up. So if you are talking about slack are you talking about slack at the last part of the 5th going to the kite? Slack down the line is no slack on 5th. Are you guys not getting this or am I crazy. (That is also why this is a different matter with the 5th briddleline being to short on the dyno18. because its a 4line with suposse to be without tension. )

[Toby]

Slack and tension on 5th is from the Y up to the kite.

Hard to compare kites in different conditions when you are used and tested in my perfect conditions. In Brazil I have more fun on the Rebel than before. Easier to compare now to what I tested before.

If you have a Rebel 18, try it also with longer nose line on 5th. Still needs load, but can be longer and might give you more power and low end. Might also speed up the kite if you want.

Let us know here if you felt any difference.

[downunder]

Just got off the 2015 dyno 13m in 18 to 20 (at 75kg) and it could have gone a shit load more.

Sweet, sweet , sweet airstyle kite....was on soft bar settings and was a tad too quick on 25m lines, hopefully slow it down enough on the hard bar setting.

Not sure how they have done it, but it didn't matter on what throw you sent it. Worked on both a bow and a C kite technique. Got me scratching my head. The best jumps were a kind of in between technique.

I was also on my medium board 135 by 41 can't wait to get it out in 20 to 25 on the airstyle board (126 by 36)..

Worth checking out folks. Not as rock solid as the 2011 wing, but it was gusty I suppose. Just Fcking unreal.

You sound a lot more enthousiast about this dyno then the rebel 18. Did you get to try out the rebel around and above 20kn yet? How was it?

Well no not really. It's a 13m ...it's a good option at that size for a 75kg rider in 20 to 25. Previously I was on the 12m rebel and it just didn't have enough 'wang' for those conditions where you are like, should I put up the 18 or not given the water conditions.

The 18m rebel, I've had it near 20 but not quite. We've had a real slow start to the season. I almost need to consider a seat harness I think and maybe even a smaller board than the 126 to go beyond that..unless it's super flat and consistent wind. But the more I ride the rebel 18 the better it gets...I suppose like all kites. I'm starting to get some relatively high jumps (you know the ones where you go...okay I need to focus here or I may get get seriously hurt)...and the hangtime is extraordinary. It's got a super direct feel. The hangtime seems to really kick in on the descent...you don't get that lift that more aspect in a kite gives you..but on the descent that open centre becomes more parachute like, you always seem to have more time than you think you have to get the board back on.

The height generated by the 13m dyno was impressive given only 18 to 20. It seems the more C kite crank you give it, the higher you go...but you gotta watch that pendulum effect the more power you have in throw when you send it. Somewhere in between a full blown C power load and send and a depower fully bow send seems to give the best of both worlds. Height and hang.

Was only my first real session so some dialing in needed. But I think that extra race aspect a wing forward speed works in that size for this model. Of course it won't give you the hang on the 18 just not enough canopy but enough to push the tricks. The bridalling is fkcn weird hey and as someone said ages ago it really does give a mechanical direct feel for a bridalled kite. The struts are so thin you laugh when pumping them up. Wonder about durability? Upwind angles to get back to your mark are insane. But been a while since I have got on a kite for its first session and gone yeh man this wing is bang on!

I still maintain they need to breed a bit more aspect into the rebel, to get it a little closer to the 2011 dyno especially for the big boys. Give that extra forward flying grunt generation..that consistent pull at the edge of the window we all enjoy.

I am riding 120x40 and was on 12m VX couple of days ago on the river. Not on the nuking 25-30kn day, but a day after, like 20kn. Can land 360 (100%) and 720 grabs some of the time.

But I'm 60kg and love my 120cm board. One rider tried it and wanted to buy on a spot (he is about 75kg). I can build a board that big for you , you just need to tell me how rigid/flexy you want it.

Using a waist harness coz my T12/13 was crushed and a seat harness ends just about on that spot (at least I can't find a higher harness). It does hurt after like 4hrs, this days tend to go strong for 1 or 2 hrs max. Works for me.

In >25kn riding 9m LF HiFi. Got 16m NRG, used it 2x

D.

[Zkatez]

Slack and tension on 5th is from the Y up to the kite.

Hard to compare kites in different conditions when you are used and tested in my perfect conditions. In Brazil I have more fun on the Rebel than before. Easier to compare now to what I tested before.

If you have a Rebel 18, try it also with longer nose line on 5th. Still needs load, but can be longer and might give you more power and low end. Might also speed up the kite if you want.

Let us know here if you felt any difference.

No..there should be no slack above Y, on a loaded 5th, accept 4line kite with 5th safety, like dyno.

Longer noseline on Rebel 18 or do you meant the Dyno?

[Westozzy]

Slack and tension on 5th is from the Y up to the kite.

Hard to compare kites in different conditions when you are used and tested in my perfect conditions. In Brazil I have more fun on the Rebel than before. Easier to compare now to what I tested before.

If you have a Rebel 18, try it also with longer nose line on 5th. Still needs load, but can be longer and might give you more power and low end. Might also speed up the kite if you want.

Let us know here if you felt any difference.

Yep will try that.... Any suggestions for length changes..5cm, 10?

[Westozzy]

Slack and tension on 5th is from the Y up to the kite.

Hard to compare kites in different conditions when you are used and tested in my perfect conditions. In Brazil I have more fun on the Rebel than before. Easier to compare now to what I tested before.

If you have a Rebel 18, try it also with longer nose line on 5th. Still needs load, but can be longer and might give you more power and low end. Might also speed up the kite if you want.

Let us know here if you felt any difference.

No..there should be no slack above Y, on a loaded 5th, accept 4line kite with 5th safety, like dyno.

Longer noseline on Rebel 18 or do you meant the Dyno?

You are correct above. With reference to the 18m rebel (which is loaded from the y up) adding a tad more nose length to build in some more slackness...but it is ultimately still loaded, just not as much...not pulling that nose down as much.

The new dyno goes from completely slack above the Y, to loaded about three quarters down the throw...it is very different indeed. Was out with another guy on one (great rider and the dude who put me onto them and I stopped and asked him if my kite was okay?). He said yep that's how it works...and it does....you got to see the weird bridalling, attachments on the struts...strange.

Again yesterday let the 18m rebel breath a bit on the trim and far more vertical jumps. Which when you think about it, relatively increases that fifth (which runs independent of the two front lines) so maybe Toby is indeed onto something.

[Toby]

just meant in general if we talk about loaded or slack 5th line it is above the Y.

Rebel 2015 18 is loaded, so tension is on 5th line from Y on.

Try 5-10-15-20 cm and see what works best for you...and tell us!

[Westozzy]

Toby couldn't you just change the fifth line knot...that would do the same thing as adding lengths on the nose line...not as much as 10cm. Surely by adding length to the nose line would just mean that fifth line would be slacker below the Y..hang down more. An ideal tune is that red fifth with just a tad of slack compared to the front lines. Surely just changing the knots of the fifth to lengthen it would do the same.

And on that notes, becuase I trim a fair bit, that creates that slack anyway. If I add more nose length and then reduce the trim I will be back where I started. Surely?

[Toby]

then it will be more slack below the Y? And therefore not chance anything above the Y.