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Fastest Kite?

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plummet
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Re: Fastest Kite?

Postby plummet » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:02 am

edt wrote:if you want the highest top speed, you don't want the fastest accelerating kite you need the lowest drag kite. If you look at speed records on land, they are consistently set with high aspect low drag foil kites such as the peter lynn vapor or ozone quantum. They don't start off quick, but slowly build up speed and thanks to the low drag of the kite you can get going 70 knots or so land speed.
I have a 6m quantum. It is the only kite that scares me. In the buggy that thing is batshit crazy in 15 knots. No depower. Not safety. Hard wired into the buggy..... it has more more power that my 15m speed when it's up at speed.

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AirBunny
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Re: Fastest Kite?

Postby AirBunny » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:30 pm

Sorry about the confusion with the buggy. That was someone else's suggestion and I played along. The reason I posted in airstyle is precisely because I wanted to avoid talking about fast turning kites. From what I've gathered from magazines, friends, and the forum a fast accelerating kite also delivers top hangtime. Just asking if you can confirm this observation.

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edt
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Re: Fastest Kite?

Postby edt » Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:09 pm

there is a lot of confusion about hangtime. hangtime is almost entirely due to the size of a kite. large kites = large hangtime. however some people think efficient kites give you more hangtime, and when i mean efficient I mean kites with good glide ratio. So for instance a 6:1 glide ratio kite is spectacular. It means for every 1 meter of height you will be able to glide 6 meters in distance. So if you do a 20 meter jump you will be able to travel 120 meters in distance. Most kites have a glide ratio of around 4:1. So they would only be able to glide 80 meters. But if you have a 21 meter kite with a 4:1 glide ratio you will hang for a very long time in the air even if it is inefficient. However if you have a 5 meter kite with a 6:1 glide ratio and start at the same height as the 21 meter kite you will drop like a stone even if you might travel a long distance.

Now the efficiency of a kite is directly related to upwind performance. So if you have an extremely efficient kite, low aspect, foil kites usually it will rocket upwind and will be good for racing. These highly efficient kites have a drawback in that they are a bit finicky and sometimes harder to handle.

So if you want hangtime, go find yourself a huge kite. Toby has been preaching this forever, and it's absolutely true, if you want to do airstyle tricks like boardoffs, go get yourself a big kite with great depower that's key to giving yourself a lot of hangtime so you can get the board on and off your feet. Small or medium kites like a 12 meter kite unless it is absolutely nuking gives you a lot less time in the air.

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Re: Fastest Kite?

Postby plummet » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:12 pm

Edt is right. Except he said low aspect by mistake. You need a high aspect kite. Long and thin. They are the most efficient. Go upwind best. Glide longest.

But as edit describes. You also need good depower at the bar. And you need a stable kite for airstyle. The higher the aspect the less stable it is..... The harder it is to fly. That is counter productive. Take the ozone chrono. Super high aspect. Super efficient. Jumps like nothing else in light wind. But it will collapse if you fly it even slightly wrong.... hence it's no good for airstyle.

So the fastest, most efficient kite is not the best for airstyle.

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edt
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Re: Fastest Kite?

Postby edt » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:59 pm

tks for the correction plummet.

Also agree with everything he says about the best airstyle kite. You want stability not just a high aspect kite.

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AirBunny
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Re: Fastest Kite?

Postby AirBunny » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:11 am

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm not convinced though. It seems a low profile kite would gain speed faster AND take you up higher and longer. Everyone decides for themselves! Thanks again.

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edt
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Re: Fastest Kite?

Postby edt » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:33 am

you are absolutely right a high aspect kite has potential for jumping higher and because you are jumping higher there is potential for staying in the air for longer than the same size kite with a medium aspect.

So for instance you are on a medium profile 7 meter kite and jump in 35 knot winds you will go up about 20 meters into the air and have about 3 seconds worth of glide. If instead you use a 7 meter high aspect kite you can go up about 25 meters or 30 meters and have 3 and a quarter seconds worth of glide.

But that's not the conditions you want to do in airstyle. Ideally you want to go out in about 20-25 knots. Now if you go out in those conditions with a 7 meter kite high aspect kite you might have about 10 meters of height and about 1 second of glide. If instead of a 7 meter kite in 20-25 knots you use a 17 meter medium aspect kite like the turbine, you won't go as high you might only go up 8 meters but on the way down instead of 1 second of glide you might have 4 or 5 seconds worth of glide also the kite will be stable in the sky and give you plenty of time to do a board off and spin.

If you want maximum height then there is no question you want the high aspect twitchy kite. But if you want maximum time in the air so you can do tricks you want as large of a kite as you can hold down, and one that is stable in the air.

If you want you could use 18 meter ozone chronos kite in 20 to 25 knots, this is the ultimate high aspect kite now you are combining both a high aspect kite that is very efficient and a very large kite you are going to go up as high as the efficient 7 meter kite mentioned earlier but now you are going to glide twice as far as the turbine and yes it's true you will spend slightly more time in the air but at the price of a more twitchy kite, also you are going to land so far downwind, it will glide and glide and glide.

But don't worry if you disagree with me. We have had this battle on kiteforum hundreds of times and it has never really been perfectly settled. What is the best kite for airstyle, do you want a really high aspect kite for better glide time? People who have a lot more experience than I do have come down on the side of the high aspect kite instead of what I favor, a kite as large as you can hold down for maximum glide, with good depower and medium aspect so it is easy to control in the air.

I'm firmly of the opinion however, that if you want to do airstyle you must be riding a much larger kite than everyone else that is your bodyweight because you need the float. This is why Toby uses such a huge kite, he will be on a kite that is twice as big as everyone else, there's good reason for it!

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AirBunny
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Re: Fastest Kite?

Postby AirBunny » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:52 am

That makes a lot of sense. I respect the opinion of more experienced kiters and I learn a lot frim them, but I also have to learn to trust my gut, because it's all I have to keep me safe AND having fun on the water. I can't take kiteforum with me out there, just me and my gut!

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Starsky
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Re: Fastest Kite?

Postby Starsky » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:02 am

I would have said go with your brain, but you know, in absence of that, go with your gut.

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AirBunny
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Re: Fastest Kite?

Postby AirBunny » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:18 am

Your brain is 99% instinct, which is what the figurative term "gut" stands for. But din't worry, I don't expect 'intellect' from literal, underdeveloped minds who can't handle figurative meaning.


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