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Hydrofoil build - Cape Verde - From scratch, help needed

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AndKite
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Hydrofoil build - Cape Verde - From scratch, help needed

Postby AndKite » Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:04 pm

Hey guys!

Im sitting here on Sal island planning to start my fist hydrofoil build. I have been looking around here on the forum for over a year now and it is time. Im buddying up with Damien, the local board repair guy and fiber guru. He has loads of experience from composites, carbon, foams etc, but like me, never built a hydrofoil. Initially, i would like to run a few things with the expert panel here on KF, so we get off to a good start.

I am planning to build by foil roughly based on this design. I have realised reading here that the precise millimeter detail in the design of the wings is not overly important for a beginner like me, as long as it is a low AR shape. However, things like flex, strength and torsional stiffness are indeed important.

When i contacted Damien to help me build, he immediately said, if we are going to build it we are going to build it in the best way we can. So instead of plywood we are planning to build the parts with 15mm Airex foam and carbon fiber. For the board i am not yet sure, but he has a lot of old surf and windsurf boards that we can salvage and modify.

I have a couple of questions before i start shaping the parts:

1. Is the above mentioned design a good one? Should I keep going or look for another design?

2. What approach should i have to attaching the mast to the board? A flat plate w 4 screws through the board or finbox type like tuttle box?

3. I am planning to travel with this, i spend my summers in Portugal. Therefore i intend to have the mast and the fuselage as separate pieces. What is the best way to attach the fuselage to the mast?

4. I have read here on the forums that the trailing edge should be positioned under the leading edge of the mast, to increase strength of the construction. Should i modify the above mentioned design like this, or is it not so important? If i do, should i simply maintain the measurements of the fuselage and just move the mast attachment point forward?

5. Damien says that with 3 carbon the thickness of the mast will be about 18mm total. Is this enough or should i aim to make it thicker?

6. Inserts. What kind of inserts should i get to attach the fins, the fuselage and the mast together?

Any other things we need to think about? I have an expert with me in terms of fiber and resins, so get complicated if you want :D

Photos of the build will follow, Damien has a great place here so this is going to be fun!

Thanks for any an all help!

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Re: Hydrofoil build - Cape Verde - From scratch, help needed

Postby Arcsrule » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:42 pm

i'm building one using the same design as you. My advice is to not sand any thing at all with carbon in it until you have a protective suit. That carbon dust itches for a long time. my eye brows itched for 4 days and after many face washings and showers. I've ordered a disposable paper suit off ebay for less than $10 that even has a hoodie attached. that should work.

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Re: Hydrofoil build - Cape Verde - From scratch, help needed

Postby revhed » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:09 pm

Good partical mask for all sanding, grinding, filing, drilling, and beveling, done outside if at all possible, even if cold!
Breathable air filtered goggles, clear ski work well! Thin winter hat to protect hair if you still have some?
Trust me the micro particals, dust WILL get everywhere and unless you have a hepa vac, cleaning will also stir them up, DO NOT INHALE THIS SHIT!! :!: I T IS SO BAD IN YOUR LUNGS!!!!
If you have a non-hepa vac, keep all the protection on as you vacuum as it will exhaust even worse ultra tiny particals that you almost can`t even see but they will "stick" in your lungs!!
Tyvek full body suit with rubber bands on wrists and ankels with a scarf fixed well.
Thin latex gloves with thicker dishwashing ones over those. Rubber bands again.
A little more prep time will save itching and more important your health latter.
Chemical cartridge mask and adequate ventilation for all epoxy, vinylester, polyester work, and best to do it at night so you can be away as it cures.
Be careful. I know guys who have done work with these products for years who now wished they would have taken better care.
R H

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Re: Hydrofoil build - Cape Verde - From scratch, help needed

Postby Denisesewa » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:27 pm

I built one from the same basic instructions and am in the process of building #2.
I did use the plywood method, one piece for the mast and fuse, I determined that at least 50 oz per sq yd of carbon is needed to get longitudinal and torsional stiffness that is close to factory foils, this results in 5 laminates with the weights of carbon I have on hand. 2x uni and 3 x + & - 45.
you can read about it here.
viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2386805

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Re: Hydrofoil build - Cape Verde - From scratch, help needed

Postby AndKite » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:34 pm

I have managed to get a hold of some mahogany, so Airex will not be used as the core of the strut.

I am also considering using mahogany for the fuselage, basically joining 2 full-lenght pieces with 2 shorter pieces in between, front and back, creating a slot between the 2 outer pieces for the mast to enter.

I will upload some pics as soon as I start working, should be tomorrow or the day after. For now, shaping the wood.

For the attachment to the board, what is the easies approach? Make a tuttle box type of shape on the top of the mast or make a plate in wood with 4 screws? What is the easiest to adapt to an existing board?

Thanks for input!

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Re: Hydrofoil build - Cape Verde - From scratch, help needed

Postby Denisesewa » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:10 pm

I think the easiest attachment is a flat plate with longboard boxes for adjustment like I'm doing for foil # 2. or flat plate with multiple holes in the board as in foil # 1.
I think its wise to build in a fair amount of adjustment on homemade foils.
Again if you visit my build page you will see how I did it as well as how I am building the solid wood foil which may give you some ideas ( not that anything I've done is the right way), I think you are intending to build yours the same way as I did the oak and hickory ones ? my concern with the solid wood ones is installing the inserts for mounting the wings, havnt decided what I'm going to do for that yet.
I feel if any water enters the wood core 'AT ALL', your done.

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Re: Hydrofoil build - Cape Verde - From scratch, help needed

Postby AndKite » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:21 pm

Denisesewa wrote:I think the easiest attachment is a flat plate with longboard boxes for adjustment like I'm doing for foil # 2. or flat plate with multiple holes in the board as in foil # 1.
I think its wise to build in a fair amount of adjustment on homemade foils.
I agree, adjustment posibilities are good. Im curious about the longboard box approach, i guess you build a flat plate with 2 "longboard fin top pieces" sticking up from it. Do you have any pictures of the plate? any tests?

Another approach im considering is making something like your #1 foil, but make 2 bars of wood inlayed in the board, with different holes in it. The wood goes through the board, meaning the pressure from the attachment screws does not compromise the board itself.

Denisesewa wrote:Again if you visit my build page you will see how I did it as well as how I am building the solid wood foil which may give you some ideas ( not that anything I've done is the right way), I think you are intending to build yours the same way as I did the oak and hickory ones ? my concern with the solid wood ones is installing the inserts for mounting the wings, havnt decided what I'm going to do for that yet.
I feel if any water enters the wood core 'AT ALL', your done.
Are you talking about your build threads here on kf or do you have a specific page where you show your builds?

I am indeed intending to do the fuselage - mast connection like your wood ones, only i plan to have it removeable. Also i plan to use 3 pieces instead of 2, to make it easier to build.

Regarding inserts, im planning to simply drill an oversized hole, insert stainless nuts into it, fix it w epoxy inside, and then lay carbon fiber over it after. Perhaps get the nuts with the flange on one end, making it harder to pull out.

I just found this nut, could it work? would avoid water infiltration

Image

Mahogany is a pretty resistent and compact wood, so i am not to worried if a drop gets inside.

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Re: Hydrofoil build - Cape Verde - From scratch, help needed

Postby Denisesewa » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:42 pm

For everything that has a bolt or insert go into or thru it I made an oversize hole and filled it with a mixture of epoxy and shredded carbon fibers then re-drilled the hole to the appropriate smaller size, this ensures no water can migrate into the wood from the hardware, I wouldnt use the crown nuts, stainless "T" nuts would probably be best.
As for the fin boxes, they are inserted into the board just like on any longboard surfboard.
Image

Image

Image

This dual longboard box setup has been used by several manufacturers already, havnt heard of any problems.
on the very first foil I built back in about 2007 there was almost no info and I built it from a picture of a Carafino, It did actually work but I ended up hitting a submerged oyster sand bar and breaking off the front wing but in only 3 weeks time there was already signs of water damage to the wood where it had migrated from the hardware so I think it was a matter of time before it broke anyway, the fuselage on that one was solid wood. You can just see in the pic ( right in front of the rear footstrap) the chunk of wood I inset into the board as reinforcement for the foil attachment, it went from top skin to bottom skin.
Image

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Re: Hydrofoil build - Cape Verde - From scratch, help needed

Postby tkettlepoint » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:47 am

Like Denise said ... I like the idea of the fin boxes then you can adjust the foil to your liking.
because everyone will have their own feel.

I put them in a block of corecell just for the extra beef around it..

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Re: Hydrofoil build - Cape Verde - From scratch, help needed

Postby AndKite » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:29 pm

That sure looks like a solid way of connecting everything to the board. I need to talk to demian to see if he has the boxes for that.

Could someone post a picture of a mast that fits in that system, so i can see how it is built? My initial idea would be to salvage 2 broken longboard fins so i dont have to build the inserts. How have you guys done it?

Terrie, what is that central rectangular hole for? Just another attachment option? Good looking board!


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