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Tuttle Box Shifting

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davesails7
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Tuttle Box Shifting

Postby davesails7 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:05 pm

I've got a tuttle box foil. I think my board was home built, but not really sure who built it, got if for cheap. It seems like the tuttle box in the board isn't exactly right. I tighten the bolts up real good, but occasionally during a hard fall I hear the foil shift in the box and then one of the bolts will be loose. Anyone have a solution to this?

I think I had heard that with raceboard tuttle fins, people had taped the fins if they were too loose in the box?

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Re: Tuttle Box Shifting

Postby zfennell » Sun Feb 22, 2015 2:20 pm

Could be just a matter of fit.
In that case shims, an additional coat of resin or similar tooling product would be the easiest approach.

But...I doubt any 'off the shelf ' Tuttle box is designed for hydrofoil type loads.
Distortion of the taper when over loaded may be why the assembly shifts.
I'm not sure how you can effectively reinforce at this stage.
Perhaps filling the cavity between the top of strut and bottom of box would provide a bit more support.

All of the above should be an easy / benign way to kill time until you talk yourself into attacking it with a router....
despite the bolts coming loose, is the strut still tight?
No worries
-bill

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davesails7
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Re: Tuttle Box Shifting

Postby davesails7 » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:10 pm

zfennell wrote:despite the bolts coming loose, is the strut still tight?
No worries
-bill
Yeah, the strut is tight in the horizontal directions. No wiggle when it's in there, it just pushes further up into the board sometimes. I guess overall it's not really an issue, just that crackling sound when it moves is very disconcerting :)

The time this affected my riding was yesterday when I lightly ran aground for the first time. Took off from the beach in deep water, but didn't realize there was a second sandbar. I only hit lightly on the bottom, but it rotated the strut a bit in the box. The head of the aft screw was up about 1/4 inch off the board. This translated to the board being about 15 degrees nose up when riding with the foil level :lol: A few minutes later I had a hard fall and it went back down to the original position.

What do you recommend using for a shim?

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Re: Tuttle Box Shifting

Postby darippah » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:28 am

I have the same issue. I think its because the tuttle head needs to be sanded down a bit so that when you install it into the board it goes all the way in

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Re: Tuttle Box Shifting

Postby Bigdog » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:39 am

Is the tuttle box a thermoplastic chinook or a true tuttle water rat carbon?

I like the idea of tuttle box for foils but maybe a bolt on might be more appropriate for the torque that will be applied.

Stan

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Re: Tuttle Box Shifting

Postby davesails7 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:50 am

darippah wrote:I have the same issue. I think its because the tuttle head needs to be sanded down a bit so that when you install it into the board it goes all the way in
I thought about filling in the top of the tuttle box with some low density filler. I asked the foil manufacturer about it and he recommended against it. Apparently the foil is not supposed to hit the top of the box, it's just supposed to be wedged in there on the sides. There is a gap between the top of the box and the top of the strut head.
Bigdog wrote:Is the tuttle box a thermoplastic chinook or a true tuttle water rat carbon?

I like the idea of tuttle box for foils but maybe a bolt on might be more appropriate for the torque that will be applied.

Stan
I didn't know there was such a thing as a carbon tuttle box. I'll take a look next time I have the foil out to see if I can see any markings.

After realizing that the fin/foil doesn't bottom out in the tuttle box, it makes me like the idea of the plate mounts more. Tuttle box was designed for fins originally. Fins have mostly sideways force so this design makes sense. The foil though has mostly upward force, so wedged in on the sides seem like an odd way to support it. Although it seems like there are plenty of tuttle foils around that work just fine. Maybe some give is a good thing when it comes to groundings.

Is the pro box used on the Sword 2 like this too? That it doesn't bottom out in the box?

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Re: Tuttle Box Shifting

Postby Bigdog » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:18 am

http://www.theshapingshack.com/products ... n-Box.html

The real tuttle is a lot more $ but might resist this effect you are seeing.

But I think some type of plate mount is a better solution. A powerbox would also seem better in this application than tuttle.

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Re: Tuttle Box Shifting

Postby cglazier » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:43 am

Davesails
I have exactly the same problem with my Spotz2. It looks like somebody took a grinder to the tuttle and rounded it off. My old Spotz1 was fine so I don't know what they were thinking in the latest production. The whole mast can rotate slightly forward and back in my board and it does and it loosens the mounting screws. I guess I will have to repot it to build up the proper tuttle shape. There are several of us around here with the new Spotz2 foils and they all look like this. Thankfully there is no problem with sideways movement and the sides seem correct.

I do love the foil overall, but I can still complain about this.
:wink: CG
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Re: Tuttle Box Shifting

Postby Bigdog » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:56 am

They made it act like a fuse so not to tear the board. Maybe not a bad idea all considered. They have been at it a while. ;0

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Re: Tuttle Box Shifting

Postby cglazier » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:27 am

The Tuttle base has been around for decades and is a very solid system. The mast fits snugly into the board to a depth limited by the front and back beveled surfaces. The mast contacts the front and back of the Tuttle base in the board. (The mast never touches the top of the Tuttle base.)

If the front and back of the mast Tuttle surfaces are rounded, there will be point loading in the mast base and it can rotate forward and backward. The mounting screws are all that limit the rotation and they will be prone to bending and working loose as the mast rotates. If a front impact occurs (like when you hit something with the foil) all the force will be on the mounting screws. Overall both the up/down and the front/back strength are reduced.

I doubt Spotz would intentionally design their masts with a rounded Tuttle and I suspect that some cowboy with an angle grinder in their production facility is the root of this problem. Around here we all intend to repair our masts by building up the Tuttle area back to its proper shape. (If we weren't thousands of miles away we would expect Spotz to do it.)

Again, it is only fair to add that overall I do love my Spotz2 foil for perfomance.

:wink: CG
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