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Best conditions, kite size for learning to foil?

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Do-it
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Best conditions, kite size for learning to foil?

Postby Do-it » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:53 am

Just as the title questions???? 153lbs

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Re: Best conditions, kite size for learning to foil?

Postby davesails7 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:18 am

I've got about 12 sessions on the foil now, including a few in the beginning where because of light onshore wind, it just didn't happen.

When I first started I saw some advice to go with 4m or 5m smaller than you would ride with a twintip. This is good advice once you know how to ride the foil, but for the first few times, this wasn't enough power. Most of the first sessions you are trying to keep the board on the water so drag is higher. When you do get on the foil you need the kite to have some power so you can lean against it. I can understand why someone who has been foiling for months would say this though. I've already gotten used to picking a smaller size kite, and it's easy to forget what those first few days were like.

As an example, I was out one day when everyone else was on 17m-19m kites and big twintips and surfboards, so I decided to try foiling with my 13m. I think it was my 3rd time out. It just wasn't happening. Then I grabbed my 18m kite and got right up on foil and made some real progress towards learning.

Things that really make learning tough are onshore wind, chop/waves, and wind so light that the kite is falling out of the sky. I'd say perfect learning conditions is enough wind to keep the kite steady in the sky even when you fall, but not enough wind to make it choppy or wavy. For the first few times out I'd say that's from 12 knots on a 14m kite or 15 knots on a 12m kite would be perfect.

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Re: Best conditions, kite size for learning to foil?

Postby cglazier » Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:31 am

The best conditions are always flat water (little chop) and steady wind.. just like learning at any stage in kiteboarding.

Use the same kite you would normally. When you are proficient foilboarder you can use a smaller kite, but when starting you need power.. just like learning at any stage in kiteboarding. As a beginner you should spend most of your time keeping your board on the water. Be sure to use a kite that can depower well.

I remember trying a new hydrofoil on too small a kite and I found it very difficult. Later when I had got used to that riding that hydrofoil, then using a small kite was easy.

And just because hydrofoilers can use a smaller kite doesn't mean we always do. When I want to go fast or jump, I use the same size kite as I would with a surfboard or twin tip board.

:wink: CG

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Re: Best conditions, kite size for learning to foil?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:44 am

Agree with above.

IMO the best you can choose would be a 10m2 in around 13-15 knots (7m/s) for the very first sessions :thumb:

A bigger kite dont make much sense and will only be worse when learning, bad turning bad handling in lulls and bad relaunch, at only 153 lbs.

In this wind you can relaunch your kite - meaning you get way more time trying to get up and going.
But still not so much wind that it gets "scary" and more difficult/choppy.
In lesser wind you wont be able to relaunch and have to swim/drift ashore or at least to low water before able to launch (remember you are in deep water can not reach the bottom), and you WILL crash your kite a lot, the very first times :naughty:

Wind must not be dead onshore, as you will drift downwind the very first takes, thus maybe ruin your hydrofoil when it hits the ground.
You have to board drag out in the deep, VERY deep preferably.

So wind side-onshore around 13-15 knots and a 10ish m2 in size for your 153 should be perfect for learning :D

When experienced, you can ride with a 10 or even bigger in these conditions, but you CAN also ride with a 7m2 if you want (I am 10% heavier than you and can ride a 7m2 in 15 knots if I want) - but not good for initial learning as others pointed out.

8) PF

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Re: Best conditions, kite size for learning to foil?

Postby Do-it » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:06 am

Thanks for the great info. I'm close to pulling the trigger on LF foil mainly for price point. I already own a kitefish board. What is the realistic low end of this board when I gain a fair amount of riding ability?

Another option would be to build my own. I'm a pretty good carpenter though I do lack glassing skills.
I've been searching the forums for schematics and and come up empty handed. Is there any info out there regarding wing sizes or maybe even templates? I'll continue reading and it would be nice if someone could point me in the right direction.

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Re: Best conditions, kite size for learning to foil?

Postby Randahl » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:58 am

I found it easier to go out in steady teens conditions on a small kite like a 9m. The LF foil won't require the speed that the high aspect foils need to lift and therefore it won't need the power either. I learned on the medium aspect Mhl and my breakthrough was when I tried a smaller kite on a steady day. A big kite on a light wind day is a handful that you don't need. Flat water will help a lot as well as a nice quiet corner if you can find one.

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Re: Best conditions, kite size for learning to foil?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:45 am

Do-it wrote:Thanks for the great info. I'm close to pulling the trigger on LF foil mainly for price point. I already own a kitefish board. What is the realistic low end of this board when I gain a fair amount of riding ability?

Snip...
Hi

The LF is a good and fun foil.

Different hydrofoils will start at the same lowend, IMO no difference (only if going to the extremes in terms of a small low cambered wing).

A big slow wing will lift earlier, and be easier for beginners.
BUT, the faster wings will have more apparent wind, thus work in just as light wind, maybe even better in fact :thumb:

With a 10m2 you (at 69-70kg) can ride from maybe 8 knots when skilled, so 8-10knots (10 knots being almost overpowered though).

Using a ligthwind LEI say 12-14m2, you might be able to get down to 7 knots.

And with a foil kite, you can go even lower.

Does not sound like much of a difference ?

True, but trust me, from 6 to 8 knots the power difference of the wind is 80%

With a bigger (racelike) board, it is easier to ride non-foiling, and easier to learn jibes/tacks, and might be a tad easier to get it onto planing (can be done though with a small board when a bit more skilled).

BUT, as such there is not really any difference in low end.

So as said, the LF hydrofoil will have the same low end as other hydrofoils, not better nor worse IMO - and this goes for all common hydrofoils :naughty:

8) Peter

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Re: Best conditions, kite size for learning to foil?

Postby Do-it » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:43 pm

Hehe, I figured building one would be a little over the top without having the basic knowledge and experience in foil boarding. Thanks for putting me in my place. :)

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Re: Best conditions, kite size for learning to foil?

Postby Randahl » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:09 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
A big slow wing will lift earlier, and be easier for beginners.
BUT, the faster wings will have more apparent wind, thus work in just as light wind, maybe even better in fact
True about apparent wind and faster foils but be careful of false confidence in marginal conditions. It takes a good deal of skill to keep apparent wind through tacks and jibes. You have to be able to do that and not fall in order to keep your kite dry

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Re: Best conditions, kite size for learning to foil?

Postby IanNJ » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:26 pm

[quote="Do-it"]Thanks for the great info. I'm close to pulling the trigger on LF foil mainly for price point. I already own a kitefish board. What is the realistic low end of this board when I gain a fair amount of riding ability?

Do-it..
I have sold a few of these foils to guys with the Fish. Mounting it is easy...

I ride this set up and have been learning since November. I have documented most of my learning curve in the blog section of www.AtlanticKiteboarding.com

I have been amazed to say the least....last weekend it was about 17-22mph and I had plenty of power on the 6.5m LF solo. A few weekends before that I was out in 13-17mph and comfortably riding the 9m LF Solo. I am 190 lbs and am totally learning in a dry suit in New Jersey right now!

I started with bigger kites as mentioned above. Now that I have a decent grasp I can ride upwind, do toe side turns and ride toe side with no issue...being powered on a little kite in those conditions is amazing.

I only had one day on a 12 in 10-14mph and am yet to try the 15.5 Solo...but based on above numbers I should be good to go in 7-11mph.


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