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Board and kite/kiter drift speed ?

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Peter_Frank
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Board and kite/kiter drift speed ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:36 am

Hi everyone

As we all know, our hydrofoils works as self correcting dolphins, meaning when we get away from the board, it will quite fast turn nose straight downwind, and actually travel quite fast downwind because of the sea motion/chop waves/swell.
This oscillating motion drives our hydrofoils at a reasonable speed, all by themeselves :D

This means, we hardly ever has to bodydrag upwind, as the board comes down to you very fast, when we have the kite parked overhead :thumb:

If we are in light wind, say 10 knots (or less), and our LEI kite drop - we typically can not relaunch again.

But what are your experiences in this situation - do you and your kite (LE down dead downwind) drift faster than your board, or do the board catches up on you in some occasions ?`

Of course it is very condition dependant, but could be interesting to hear what you have experienced ?

I have been out once, long ago, in maybe 9 knots with a 13m2 Dyno, where I dropped it in a jibe attempt, and drifted so slow towards shore (not that far out), where I deliberately let go of my board, to adjust something on my harness, and wanting to grab my board after that.
But damn, the kite and me still drifted faster than my board :o
Well, no big deal, as you have to drift ashore so you can backwards relaunch the kite again anyways.

But have anyone experienced the opposite - that the board drifts faster than you ?

The drift speed is often quite close though, as I have sometimes drifted to shore to relaunch, HOPING my board would stay out, as small rocks on the bottom, but nevertheless, when I was ashore (actually just where I could reach the bottom myself) and relaunched, the board had gotten into low water and rubbing against the rocks.
Thats was Murphy of course...


On a sidenote, if far out and you are more than one, and you drop the kite in light wind, then it is good practice that the other rider(s) ride or drag your board down to you (they can always wait for their own or bodydrag) for several reasons:

1. You can sit on the board, even if small, so particulary if winter it is much more comfortable and not the same risk for hyperthermia.

2. You can handle the board (tilt it on its side or upside down) when approaching low water rocks and similar, to save it from scratces, wear and damage.

3. Last but not least - when sitting on your board, it is WAY easier to use the hydrofoil as a brake, so much better chance of a relaunch in marginal winds, if a small gusts drops in :thumb:
And if not - then as said, #1 applies and you can enjoy the ride home while watching the nature, and hope for a gust to come :naughty:

8) PF

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Re: Board and kite/kiter drift speed ?

Postby revhed » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:46 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
This means, we hardly ever has to bodydrag upwind, as the board comes down to you very fast, when we have the kite parked overhead :thumb:
But what are your experiences in this situation - do you and your kite (LE down dead downwind) drift faster than your board, or do the board catches up on you in some occasions ?`
But have anyone experienced the opposite - that the board drifts faster than you ?
Thats was Murphy of course...
On a sidenote, if far out and you are more than one, and you drop the kite in light wind, then it is good practice that the other rider(s) ride or drag your board down to you (they can always wait for their own or bodydrag) for several reasons:
1. You can sit on the board, even if small, so particulary if winter it is much more comfortable and not the same risk for hyperthermia.
8) PF
Hi PF,
I find myself body draging upwind a lot missing flying stance changes, I seem to always eject down wind, but no big deal to get KBF back.
I almost never get my LEI on the H20.
When we fly here on the Med, S FR, the thermals are on shore and down turn infinities if flown well will get you in if the wind drops to much, BUT, having to stop and push your KBF from time to time.
If we see someone with kite on H20 we assist by pushing their and your own KBFs to shore.
This can actually be fun as the challenge is to time the kite flying with alternating between pushing the KBF, keeping them apart just enough.
I have never sat on mine or anyone elses KBF, never needed to?
I can not address the swell situation as here we do not have that very often.
What I do know is that the increadble up AND down wind ability of KBFs is so fun to use!
R H

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Re: Board and kite/kiter drift speed ?

Postby Tone » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:03 am

interesting thread.

I have recently got my foiling to a point where I can ride it for a reasonably long time without falling in (I still always fall on turning around though)

In 12 years of kiting I have never had to be rescued..... until 3 weeks ago.

I was out on my 10m Edge, wind was 12 knots and I was kiting upwind of an old anti submarine structure.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... -beach.jpg

I was about 800m upwind of the boom (is the local name) and stuffed the kite in the water. Like Revhead, I very rarely put my kite in the water but foiling has taken me back to a beginner.

Kite was dead downwind of me, foil was 30m to my right.

I was in the water for 10 mins drifting downwind trying to relaunch my kite to no avail. Long story short, the club boat came and got me when I was 20m from the boom. They launched my kite and I dragged to my foil which was pretty much the same distance away from me for the whole journey.

Safe to say I will be using my Flysurfer 10m in those winds in the future. That kite would certainly have relaunched easier in the light winds.

Tony

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Re: Board and kite/kiter drift speed ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:01 am

It seems you experience the same Tone, that the drift speeds are sometimes very similar :D

I really dont understand how you manage NOT to put the kite down occasionally RH ?

If the wind suddenly dies to a few knots or less, you can not keep a LEI/C kite up, not even if looping it if too light.
And if it is flown down and to the edge, because you downloop and miss a hard trick in marginal winds - it is the point of no return for the kite.

But mostly when you try to do extremely fast foiling jibes downwind in light wind, or looping the kite in huge chop and ventilating, or flying the kite 20cm over the water when going max speed halfwind or downwind and you suddenly hit something or ventilate between waves, or miss an aerial move so the foil ends up between your lines, or if you drop down in front of a really steep big wave when riding waves and get tumbled around - then your kite has a huge risk of going into the drink :naughty:

Which is fine, as I believe this is how we learn new things - trying without knowing what will happen, and going for it and not holding back :thumb:

It will cost some bruises and kite down now and then, or snapped lines (by the foil), but hey, it is all part of the fun right ? :rollgrin:

Or maybe we are simply not sufficiently skilled yet, I admit :wink:

8) PF

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Re: Board and kite/kiter drift speed ?

Postby revhed » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:17 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
I really dont understand how you manage NOT to put the kite down occasionally RH ?

If the wind suddenly dies to a few knots or less, you can not keep a LEI/C kite up, not even if looping it if too light.
And if it is flown down and to the edge, because you downloop and miss a hard trick in marginal winds - it is the point of no return for the kite.

But mostly when you try to do extremely fast foiling jibes downwind in light wind, or looping the kite in huge chop and ventilating, or flying the kite 20cm over the water when going max speed halfwind or downwind and you suddenly hit something or ventilate between waves, or miss an aerial move so the foil ends up between your lines, or if you drop down in front of a really steep big wave when riding waves and get tumbled around - then your kite has a huge risk of going into the drink :naughty:

Which is fine, as I believe this is how we learn new things - trying without knowing what will happen, and going for it and not holding back :thumb:

Or maybe we are simply not sufficiently skilled yet, I admit :wink:
We are lucky here, HUGE beach with windmills just behind.
As said we fly light thermals in the afternoon and stay close to shore just in case, super small chop.
I am a kiter, like really a kiter but that is another story, and when you sense the wind droping even slightly you head for shore.
"See" the wind on the water, note your speed and apparant wind.
I maybe put my L E I on the H20 twice last season and I fly almost daily.
I fly 40 m lines with a 14m2 kite and do almost exclusivly kite down turns while doing flying jibes, never managed a tack yet!
I do not do fast flying jibes, I try to time that when the kite is directly down wind flying straight down to have my KBF also directly pointing down wind, such a nice feeling!
When I miss flying stance changes the kite is high so no risk there.
NOT to say that I sometimes JUST make it in and land kite on beach quickly!
One has to be skilled to do down turn infinities correctly to pull this off.
R H

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Re: Board and kite/kiter drift speed ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:02 pm

Aaah, okay, that explains :thumb:

If using normal lines 21-22m it is more risky in marginal winds.

And as we often ride 2km out/upwind to find undisturbed wind and smooth water at our favorite spot (10-15m deep at this spot), it is always exiting when the wind dies, if you manage to ride back, or have to swim/drift in 3 degree C water :naughty:

In 10 knots a 9 or 10 LEI is perfect, even with the shorter lines, but if it drops only a tad, you might not be able to waterstart even when looping the kite :o
Best thing is to try over and over, because as soon as you HAVE managed to get up on the board, you can always loop and pump into planing, and then go looping or even parked downwind towards shore :rollgrin:
The critical point is always if you are able to pull yourself up on the board or not, when the wind drops :o

We got hundreds of different spots around here, in all 360 degree wind directions - so a luxury thing.


Noone else besides Tone and me who has noticed the drift speeds, compared ?

When it gets warmer, I think I have to test it in different conditions then, maybe with a GPS (also on the board) for an accurate comparison :wink:

Really important whether you drift faster than your board, or not - and in which conditions this occur.

8) PF


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