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Best relaunch in marginal conditions?

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ronnie
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Re: Best relaunch in marginal conditions?

Postby ronnie » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:48 pm

[quote="Laughingman]

The fifth line method can easily be adapted to 4 line kites simply by pulling one of the inside lines while feathering the opposite outside line. I use this method in light winds all the time and it works very well to get the kite to roll over. There's a video but I was unable to locate it.[/quote]


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Re: Best relaunch in marginal conditions?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:05 pm

davesails7 wrote:
Peter_Frank wrote:Not many or any uses 5 line kites nowadays, but wouldnt they be easier to get turned on its back and maybe tilted TE down so they can be pulled up through the powerzone ?
I would think so, but dont know...
I've ridden the 18m North Dyno 2011 with 5 lines quite a bit on my raceboard in marginal winds, and I don't think the 5th line helped much in trailing edge down relaunches. If it was light enough for that kite to backstall and wind up trailing edge down, there was pretty much no chance of relaunching. Also, I didn't think pulling on the fifth line really made much of a difference compared to pulling the two front lines when trailing edge down.

With leading edge down though, the fifth line definitely helped with relaunch. The race kites being high aspect ratio and flat don't roll up on their wingtip in light wind, so the fifth line really helped. Not sure the fifth line would make much of a difference for the freeride style lightwind kites that have a more swept back wingtip and curved leading edge to make it roll up on a wingtip by just pulling a rear line.
Sorry if I was not clear, to both you and Laughingman :roll:

The only reason for having the 5th line should be in order to tilt it on its back, and then get it turned around TE down, as this is the only way you can get a kite up in really low wind IMO.
Amd WHEN it is on its TE, you pull the frontline(s) and a 5th would hardly make much difference here (but maybe just a little) - it is mostly in order to get it on its back when you are drifting in the water in marginal winds, where the LE tends to suck down to the water, and/or be filled with water.

Backwards relaunch is also an option, but launching TE down (which requires some struts so it stays up better) will always be more efficient because of the profile, so can be done in less wind.
Furthermore - the video shown earlier was in FLAT water, which most often is not the case around here and in many open sea spots.
LE down the waves/chop will splash water inside the LE, so it will be much heavier and very often impossible to relaunch backwards because of this.

Not sure about the Cloud video Ronnie - is it supposed to show how good the Cloud relaunches, or how difficult it is ???
Is he riding and going upwind on a TT ? Maybe mistaken, but even if it is a door, it requires a lot more wind than a hydrofoil.

Sorry, I am not convinced that these kites can relaunch in very marginal hydrofoil wind :(
But agree, the light ones are WAY better indeed :thumb:

knot_moving, you are right, in 10 knots I often ride a 9m2 kite, so a 17 powerful kite would be WAAAAY too big.

Sorry, it could just be me - but all videos showing relaunch in almost no wind, seems (to me) to have no reality for most riders, when talking hydrofoils :wink:

Just like the Epic low end claims :rollgrin:

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Re: Best relaunch in marginal conditions?

Postby Laughingman » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:35 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
davesails7 wrote:
Peter_Frank wrote:Not many or any uses 5 line kites nowadays, but wouldnt they be easier to get turned on its back and maybe tilted TE down so they can be pulled up through the powerzone ?
I would think so, but dont know...
I've ridden the 18m North Dyno 2011 with 5 lines quite a bit on my raceboard in marginal winds, and I don't think the 5th line helped much in trailing edge down relaunches. If it was light enough for that kite to backstall and wind up trailing edge down, there was pretty much no chance of relaunching. Also, I didn't think pulling on the fifth line really made much of a difference compared to pulling the two front lines when trailing edge down.

With leading edge down though, the fifth line definitely helped with relaunch. The race kites being high aspect ratio and flat don't roll up on their wingtip in light wind, so the fifth line really helped. Not sure the fifth line would make much of a difference for the freeride style lightwind kites that have a more swept back wingtip and curved leading edge to make it roll up on a wingtip by just pulling a rear line.
Sorry if I was not clear, to both you and Laughingman :roll:

The only reason for having the 5th line should be in order to tilt it on its back, and then get it turned around TE down, as this is the only way you can get a kite up in really low wind IMO.
Amd WHEN it is on its TE, you pull the frontline(s) and a 5th would hardly make much difference here (but maybe just a little) - it is mostly in order to get it on its back when you are drifting in the water in marginal winds, where the LE tends to suck down to the water, and/or be filled with water
That is exactly the reason to use this method, you can rotate the kite from le down to trailing edge down and then perform a hot launch.

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Re: Best relaunch in marginal conditions?

Postby ronnie » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:22 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Not sure about the Cloud video Ronnie - is it supposed to show how good the Cloud relaunches, or how difficult it is ???
Is he riding and going upwind on a TT ? Maybe mistaken, but even if it is a door, it requires a lot more wind than a hydrofoil.

Sorry, I am not convinced that these kites can relaunch in very marginal hydrofoil wind :(
But agree, the light ones are WAY better indeed :thumb:

8) PF
The video was made in the early days of the C1 Cloud and looks to me like it was an investigation of what ways the C1 could be manoeuvred/relaunched.

Each person has to draw their own conclusions about the video.

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Re: Best relaunch in marginal conditions?

Postby Atte » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:16 am

The New LEI kite from Flysurfer the BOOST has a revers launch design (the bigger sizes only) just for this purpose so you can easy relaunch it in the powerzone when it not enough wind for a relaunch in the edge of the wind window.

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Re: Best relaunch in marginal conditions?

Postby FrederikS » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:02 am

Pull one backline and the opposite frontline. Works fine on the race kites I have had. Sometimes you just reverse it up depending on conditions.

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Re: Best relaunch in marginal conditions?

Postby Strekke » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:46 am

so how exactly do you reverse launch? Just by pulling in both of the steering lines? and then the kite should take off backwards until you let go of 1 of them so it turns around and then you let go of the 2nd one too?

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Re: Best relaunch in marginal conditions?

Postby FrederikS » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:13 pm

Strekke wrote:so how exactly do you reverse launch? Just by pulling in both of the steering lines? and then the kite should take off backwards until you let go of 1 of them so it turns around and then you let go of the 2nd one too?
That is how it works :P

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Re: Best relaunch in marginal conditions?

Postby ronnie » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:40 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sorry, I am not convinced that these kites can relaunch in very marginal hydrofoil wind.

Sorry, it could just be me - but all videos showing relaunch in almost no wind, seems (to me) to have no reality for most riders, when talking hydrofoils :wink:

8) PF
I don't think kites will relaunch in 2.5 knots of wind.


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Re: Best relaunch in marginal conditions?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:44 pm

FrederikS wrote:
Strekke wrote:so how exactly do you reverse launch? Just by pulling in both of the steering lines? and then the kite should take off backwards until you let go of 1 of them so it turns around and then you let go of the 2nd one too?
That is how it works :P
Exactly, but you can also hold both rearleaderlines with one hand, and the bar with the other, and when it is backed up it will turn to one side or the other by itself either slowly or fast so you let go of the rearlines now, and you can most often steer it free by pulling the correct side of the bar now :naughty:

As I think almost everybody kiting in marginal winds are used to this (at least when launching from land, or drifting on land), we all know that it wont take long till this is easy.
And the reason why you hold your other hand on the bar, is to avoid it tangling or being reversed - but more important, you can pull one side immediately so the kite wont even touch the ground or water :thumb:

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