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Upwind/Downwind Technique?

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Randahl
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Upwind/Downwind Technique?

Postby Randahl » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:37 am

What have you found are the best techniques for going upwind and downwind?

Aside from rider weight and kite size and wing size and wind speed, what are the best practices?

Say you are on a 15m Chrono and a Sword2 in 12-14 mph winds trying to get around a course.

For upwind:
How do you trim the kite? Fully powered, depowered a little?
From your trim setting how do you sheet? are you trying to let it fly or are you sheeting as much as possible without stalling it? I have been experimenting with depowering a little to sse if it would point higher, but I don't know.

How about where you hold the kite in the sky? down low? at 45 degrees? higher? I suspect 45 degrees...

How about how you heel over on the foil? heel over as far as you can?

Is it better to point as high as you can even if you feel like you are barely hanging onto foiling speed or is it better to go faster but not point as high?

For downwind:

Where do you hold the kite in the sky?
Sheeted in or let it fly?
heel the foil against the kite or ride more upright?

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Re: Upwind/Downwind Technique?

Postby jplmain » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:26 am

Start off with a small to medium race kite. Go up wind like mad and then have a large, fat, surf kite a mile or two upwind, exchange the race kite for the surf kite and go downwind like a kamikaze. :lol:

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Re: Upwind/Downwind Technique?

Postby nickrh » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:07 am

Ozchrisb said on another thread that the Chrono allows him to go much deeeper downwind than the Edge. I could understand a better vmg , but not a deeper angle, so am still trying to get my head atound that one.

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Re: Upwind/Downwind Technique?

Postby Tone » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:25 pm

nickrh wrote:Ozchrisb said on another thread that the Chrono allows him to go much deeeper downwind than the Edge. I could understand a better vmg , but not a deeper angle, so am still trying to get my head atound that one.
I think this is around how fast the kite is and how far in the wind it goes, this works very well for going upwind but when going downwind traditionally you want a fat kite that sits back. When you're going 2-3 times the speed of the wind, you're back to needing a kite that flies fast enough to stay ahead of you and to keep generating pull through apparent wind.

I was out on Sunday on my 10m Edge and going downwind was hard work, I found that depowering the kite quite a bit the kite would sit forward and keep pulling. If I had it powered up it would just stall. A Chrono or similar lightwind foil is designed to be as efficient as possible. It will have the lowest stalling speed, hold in the air the longest and pull the most when you want it to.

That's my take on it anyway!

Tony

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Re: Upwind/Downwind Technique?

Postby nickrh » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:12 pm

Yeah, that makes sense. So a lower aspect allows a faster transition from upwind to downwind, or deeper initial downwind angles. But , as the speed increases, a higher aspect kite would allow deeper sustained downwind angles. I'm starting to swallow it easier now :)

I assume in that case the kite is not sined anymore? Meaning, once you establish a sustained downwind angle at x times the windspeed it's better not to work the kite anymore, as opposed to when you're transitioning from a beam to a broad reach?

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Re: Upwind/Downwind Technique?

Postby Tone » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:19 pm

nickrh wrote:Yeah, that makes sense. So a lower aspect allows a faster transition from upwind to downwind, or deeper initial downwind angles. But , as the speed increases, a higher aspect kite would allow deeper sustained downwind angles. I'm starting to swallow it easier now :)

I assume in that case the kite is not sined anymore? Meaning, once you establish a sustained downwind angle at x times the windspeed it's better not to work the kite anymore, as opposed to when you're transitioning from a beam to a broad reach?
Yeah I think so.

When I had a Chrono on demo last year, on flat water when you could really haul ass, going off the wind the kite would be low, you didn't move it and you just accelerated to warp speed (this was on a raceboard) So one would assume the same if not at least 20 % faster on a foil.

Look at the racing from Mexico last year and you can see how the rider go downwind.

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Re: Upwind/Downwind Technique?

Postby Randahl » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:27 pm

Randahl wrote:What have you found are the best techniques for going upwind and downwind?

Aside from rider weight and kite size and wing size and wind speed, what are the best practices?

Say you are on a 15m Chrono and a Sword2 in 12-14 mph winds trying to get around a course.

For upwind:
How do you trim the kite? Fully powered, depowered a little?
From your trim setting how do you sheet? are you trying to let it fly or are you sheeting as much as possible without stalling it? I have been experimenting with depowering a little to sse if it would point higher, but I don't know.

How about where you hold the kite in the sky? down low? at 45 degrees? higher? I suspect 45 degrees...

How about how you heel over on the foil? heel over as far as you can?

Is it better to point as high as you can even if you feel like you are barely hanging onto foiling speed or is it better to go faster but not point as high?

For downwind:

Where do you hold the kite in the sky?
Sheeted in or let it fly?
heel the foil against the kite or ride more upright?

All good commentary but sort of off the topic. I used this equipment as an example because it's what I have and probably representative of the equipment that the top upwind downwind riders are using (the R1 and the other new kites and foils notwithstanding)

I am asking about technique, not equipment.

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Re: Upwind/Downwind Technique?

Postby darippah » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:15 pm

Is it really possible to go downwind faster than the wind without sining the kite?

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Re: Upwind/Downwind Technique?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:56 pm

darippah wrote:Is it really possible to go downwind faster than the wind without sining the kite?
Yes :thumb:

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Re: Upwind/Downwind Technique?

Postby grania » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:14 am

As I get more used to my foil, this is a similar question I have wondered about.
For pushing upwind as hard as you can, are you better to lean back and have the foil at a 45 degree angle in the water? (like leaning hard against a board rail)
Or are you better to stay more upright, but angle it "with the fins" like you might with a surfboard?

Seems like that might be a dumb question....but there it is. :?:


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