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Strutless vs foil kites

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jaros
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Strutless vs foil kites

Postby jaros » Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:53 am

Can you share your experiences? I would like to
hear a comparison from those who had used both - With foilboards in minimal winds (7-10 knots).

Greetings, jaros

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Re: Strutless vs foil kites

Postby fun2kite » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:16 am

I used 18M Airush Zero for about year. It worked, but I just switched to Flysurfer Sonic FR 15M.
And oh my, there is no comparison. I will never again, EVER, use my 18M Zero.

Foils and Sonic FR in particular just changes everything. It sits far forward in the window that you don't feel any pull of the kite you need to counter as you do with 18M zero.
Zero was powerful and as soon as wind picked up a bit, it would be almost un-controlable pulling your OFF the board sitting back in the power window.

At the same time, getting going with Sonic is incredible. I used to struggle with 18M Zero to get going. As soon as I would get going, I would be often overpowered, but getting going was still difficult. With Sonic, one dive down and I am off ridding! I can't believe it myself, but it is true.

Obviously, it's a brand new world for me with a foil kite. It fly differently, it handles differently, a lot of hassle to prepare for launch and different technique of landing (I am always self launch /land)

So it is not without negatives, but overall.. Do not think twice.. Get a foil kite IMHO!

Cheers,
-D
Last edited by fun2kite on Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Strutless vs foil kites

Postby Hawaiis » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:26 am

fun2kite wrote:I used 18M Airush Zero for about year. It worked, but I just switch to Flysurfer Sonic FR.
And oh my! there is no comparison. I will never again, EVER, use my 18M Zero.

Foils and Sonic FR in particular just changes everything. it sits so far forward in the window that you don't feel any pull of the kite you need to counter as you do with 18M zero.
Zero was powerful and as soon as wind picked up a bit, it would be almost un-controlable. pulling your OFF the board. Sitting so much back in the window.

At the same time, getting going with Sonic is also incredible. I used to struggle with 18M Zero to get going. As soon as I would get going, I would be potentially overpowered, but getting going was still difficult.
With Sonic, ONE dive down and I am off ridding! I can't believe it myself, but it is true.

Obviously, it's a brand new world of me with a foil kite. It fly differently, it handles differently, a lot of hassle to prepare for launch and different technique of landing (I am always self launch /land)

So it is not without negatives, but overall.. Do not think twice.. Get a foil kite IMHO!

Cheers,
-D
Is your Sonic 18m too?

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Re: Strutless vs foil kites

Postby fun2kite » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:17 am

My Sonic is 15m and seem to getting my up better than my zero 18. It is lighter, much higher aspect ratio and bigger projected area as well.

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Re: Strutless vs foil kites

Postby Hawaiis » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:38 pm

fun2kite wrote:My Sonic is 15m and seem to getting my up better than my zero 18. It is lighter, much higher aspect ratio and bigger projected area as well.
I notice most hydrofoilers avoid the large foil kites and stick to 11-15m for light wind. What is your estimate on the low end on your Sonic with hydrofoil compared with the Zero in Knots?

Thanks

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Re: Strutless vs foil kites

Postby foilonfoil » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:58 pm

Started with Ozone Chrono's 12M/15M and now flying Flysurfer Sonic FR's 9M/11M. The 11M is as much kite as I need on the lightest of days. The 9M on the bigger days.

Foil kites generate massive power as you build apparent wind speed so I am totally overpowered on a 15M Foil kite.

Love everything about the Sonics! Incredible stablity and a very strong power band.

The skill to lean in lighter conditions is a down loop of the kite to the direction you are starting and the power from the loop will have you immediately up and foiling.

7-10kts is really light and your body size may require you to use a 15M but just be really careful if conditions increase as you will be overpowered quickly.

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Re: Strutless vs foil kites

Postby Hawaiis » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:08 pm

foilonfoil wrote:Started with Ozone Chrono's 12M/15M and now flying Flysurfer Sonic FR's 9M/11M. The 11M is as much kite as I need on the lightest of days. The 9M on the bigger days.

Foil kites generate massive power as you build apparent wind speed so I am totally overpowered on a 15M Foil kite.

Love everything about the Sonics! Incredible stablity and a very strong power band.

The skill to lean in lighter conditions is a down loop of the kite to the direction you are starting and the power from the loop will have you immediately up and foiling.

7-10kts is really light and your body size may require you to use a 15M but just be really careful if conditions increase as you will be overpowered quickly.
How much do you weight? Would you do a comparison on the 12 Chrono and 11 Sonic?

Thanks

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Re: Strutless vs foil kites

Postby Aummm » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:17 pm

jaros wrote:Can you share your experiences? I would like to
hear a comparison from those who had used both - With foilboards in minimal winds (7-10 knots).

Greetings, jaros
Strutless are sh!t vs foil kites.
In performance like range, boosting, upwind strutlesses are a joke.
Why even anybody would be even using them with a common sense.
Even Peter Cabrinha turned them down and other famous designers,
because of it's insufficient support of the canopy :lol:
Who is really devoted for the sport because kiteboarding is about boosting,
they go for the foil kites especially in 7-10 knots with a foilboard.
Ignore the propaganda about strutless :!: :girl:

:jump:

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Re: Strutless vs foil kites

Postby edt » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:31 pm

that's an interesting comparison. There is the cloud of course but I think you also want to throw in the liquid force solo even tho it's not strutless, it does only have one strut. as far as pure performance the foil wins. As far as relaunch the foil is much easier to relaunch than the cloud because sometimes water laps over the canopy, the solo relaunches fairly nicely but foils relaunch in almost no wind at all. where does the strutless kite win? Well there is one obvious place where it wins. If you are on a long downwinder and the wind dies 1 mile from shore. I mean completely dies down to zero. The strutless kite like all inflatables floats and is not too bad to swim home with. If the wind picks up after 1 or 2 hours you can always relaunch a cloud, but water gets inside the foil, you will have 50 pounds of water in the foil after it has been sitting in the water for an hour. Here the strutless kite definitely wins. All foils have poor performance in extremely gusty conditions, you get things like bridle wraps, tacos, wing collapses. The strutless wins here. The strutless kite also wins in sketchy launch conditions. For a foil you need to have it lined up pretty well and lay it out on the land to launch. A cloud you can swim into the water and drift launch like any other tube kite or tether launch from the water if there's too much pointy stuff on shore. Just think about what you want, they both have their uses. Of course once you have decided on a strutless you have to ask yourself do I really want a strutless kite or is it better to have a kite with 1 or 3 struts, because if you choose the strutless kite because it is better in gusty conditions than a foil maybe you want a regular kite after all.

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Re: Strutless vs foil kites

Postby foilonfoil » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:40 pm

Hawaiis wrote: How much do you weight? Would you do a comparison on the 12 Chrono and 11 Sonic?

Thanks
210lbs. Really no difference between 11 Sonic and 12 Chrono. The new Sonic build and stability are superior.

Every foil kite needs speed to generate power and they all rock at speed. It's their behavior and your skills which determines what happens when not at speed.

IMO, Everything has changed and high aspect ratio kites have performance attributes that are now very desirable. Unfortunately, the race scene has somewhat compromised the products we get in the marketplace and some of these products should not be on store shelves. They really are built for racing only with very light weight construction.

I saw a foil kite a week ago so with a shredded bridle that completely separated from the bar and rider. A second kiter had to save the kite. Conditions were light.


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