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Hydrofoil Generation

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masterred
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Hydrofoil Generation

Postby masterred » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:34 pm

A little video from Italy,

Chrono 18, Groove Board and Sroka Foil.

Ciao Ciao

https://vimeo.com/137380651


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Hawaiis
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Re: Hydrofoil Generation

Postby Hawaiis » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:49 pm

Nice video, what wind speed range can you foil with the 18m?
Thanks

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masterred
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Re: Hydrofoil Generation

Postby masterred » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:53 pm

Thanks Hawaiis,
6/9 knots
but 6 or 7 knots is perfect
Ciao from Italy

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Hawaiis
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Re: Hydrofoil Generation

Postby Hawaiis » Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:25 pm

masterred wrote:Thanks Hawaiis,
6/9 knots
but 6 or 7 knots is perfect
Ciao from Italy
Thanks for the quick reply.
So Ozone's 6 knot claim is right on.
Fly surfer Sonic 18's 4 knot claim is a little fishy.

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Re: Hydrofoil Generation

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:14 am

Hmmm, a "claim" for low end makes aaaaaabsolutely no sense whatsoever, with any kite :lol:

It is a general thumbrule from the brand, which makes no sense as it can be tweaked both up and down without telling a lie.

I can ride with my 11m2@77kg in 4 knots on my marginal wind hydrofoil t.ex.

Does that mean the low end is 4 knots ?

I can fly the kite in 2 knots, does that mean the low end is 2 knots ?

I need maybe 7 knots or more, with the small fast racewing, does that mean the low end is 7 knots ?

And this is only with hydrofoils - most all over the world are using TTs and Waveboards, so should the low end be put as a reference to an average weight on these ?

Putting a low end number on a "kite only" makes even less sense, as I believe almost all kites can fly when you stand on the beach, in a few knots only - actually even easier if it is a 5m2, flies just dandy and easy in 2-4 knots :naughty:

So "claiming" a low end for a specific kite and size is utterly useless IMO.

Noting in the specifications, what range is typically used for a given kite and size (medium weight rider 75-80kg) makes sense - especially for beginners who got no idea.

For the rest of us, no use whatsoever :roll:

8) PF

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Re: Hydrofoil Generation

Postby Hawaiis » Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:38 pm

Flysurfer Sonic
Kite 9 11 15 18
Wind min 4 4 4 4
Water TwinTip min 13 9 7 6
Water TwinTip max 42 32 25 20
Land /Ice /Hard Snow /Hydrofoil min 9 6 5 4
Land/ Ice /Hard Snow /Hydrofoil max 32 22 17 14

They claim the same 4 knots for land and hydrofoil for the 18m, while Ozone Chrono 18 is 4 knots for land and 6 knots for water.

Ozone still thinks The Edge 19 has better low end and top end than the new R1 19m.
I have not flow any of the new race foil kites, but my assumption is inline with Ozone's official recommendations. Foil kites still can not beat LEI in absolute low end on water with hydrofoil.
Those that claim 11m foil kites can out perform a 19m LEI, I don't believe them.
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Re: Hydrofoil Generation

Postby Starsky » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:24 pm

@ Hawaiis

You can say what you want, but its all conjecture as you openly state you have never flown one of the new race foils.

Forming any absolute "belief" on the matter borders on ignorance.

The FS speed upon which you base all of your foil assumptions is a totally different animal to the chorno, and elf, and sonic. It was developed long before the specifics of hydrofoiling really hit the scene.

I've seen a guy ripping around locally on a foil in 6 knots on a 15m sonic. I certainly don't believe that just anyone can up and make a go of an 18m sonic on a hydrofoil in 4 knots, but given steady enough 4 knots and maybe a 5-6 knots bump to get up and riding, I sure as hell believe someone can do it, if not the one guy I have actually seen so far who has the skills.

You yourself have incredible skill in light wind. All of it based around the specifics of LEI kites. Of course your going to have learning curve on something completely different. I don't understand the inflexibility of your opinion.

The race scene has returned a verdict on out and out performance. The semantics of self rescue, relaunch, and ability to stay in the air, all waffle from one type to the other depending on who you listen to. Its all pretty much irrelevant detail when you get down to 4-6 knots anyway. Any sane kiter understands the variability of those conditions, and the high probability of failure any rider faces when going out in them.

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Re: Hydrofoil Generation

Postby Hawaiis » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:09 pm

I am sure the smaller size foil kites perform better than similar size Lei, I have rode along side with my old 11m crossbow. Most don't bother with large foil kites in light wind. I just don't believe some outrageous claims like a 11m foil kite can go in lower wind than a 19m LEI.

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Re: Hydrofoil Generation

Postby Starsky » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:35 pm

Those graphic wind range charts are art work at best. There is no hard objective data sheet they are based on. Its a couple pro rider's and the designer's input filtered through a graphics designer and marketing person, whose goal it is to convince you that its all legit and practically fact.

Watching someone vex over them and base purchase decisions on numbers that differ by 1 or worse some gradient of a fade is laughable.

There are indeed many racers who have the experience and skill to ride circles around a floundering foiler on a 19m LEI with their 11m foil race kites.

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Re: Hydrofoil Generation

Postby Hawaiis » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:43 pm

Starsky wrote:Those graphic wind range charts are art work at best. There is no hard objective data sheet they are based on. Its a couple pro rider's and the designer's input filtered through a graphics designer and marketing person, whose goal it is to convince you that its all legit and practically fact.

Watching someone vex over them and base purchase decisions on numbers that differ by 1 or worse some gradient of a fade is laughable.

There are indeed many racers who have the experience and skill to ride circles around a floundering foiler on a 19m LEI with their 11m foil race kites.
Agreed


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