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Crazy idea or possible future hydrofoil hover board design?

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edt
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Re: Crazy idea or possible future hydrofoil hover board desi

Postby edt » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:08 am

there is a possibility you can get around the r^2 problem, and this is if you are able to create a directed magnetic field for instance in broadcast technology they use these monopole antennas and get very low loss by directing the signal exactly where they want to go, or the microwaves that power our cell phones, of course they are channeled in line of sight. Right now as far as I know magnets are built to give you a uniform field for the various applications, and this field spreads out in a standard dipole. If there was a way to direct this magnetic field better you could have a magnetic strong enough to hold you up powered by a handheld battery. You would have to do some research about it contact people involved in magnetic research including those maglev train people. Don't give up on the idea if you think it's good. What did Thomas Edison say? Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.

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Re: Crazy idea or possible future hydrofoil hover board desi

Postby fun2kite » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:27 am

Well.. Yes.. I think there are many possible solutions.

For example. we don't need to keep magnet inside the board. We can just keep batteries inside the board and still have a mast of sorts - say 70 cm only which would end with kind of platform in which the magnets are located. So now we no longer need to project the magnetic field for 1m but say for only 30 cm or even less.

In this updated design, we would only have a gap of 10-30 cm between the end of the mast ending a few cm above the water and the magnetically levitated foil under the surface.

This would greatly reduce the energy requirement, but may not be enough to overcome r^2 problem. Basically it is an engineering problem at this point and require somebody to be able to overcome stated issues.

I think my background may be in a wrong field. (I am software engineer) and we need a physicist, mechanical engineer, electrical engineer and maybe composite experts to come together..

But the idea is now in the air. It's all I wanted. I am sure somebody will go to sleep tonight or tomorrow and have an "aha" moment.. Not today, not tomorrow, maybe next year. :-)

You are a great example of such person who just gave one more way to overcome the problem.
Maybe 5 or 6 of these design modifications will be able to finally solve it one day.


edt wrote:there is a possibility you can get around the r^2 problem, and this is if you are able to create a directed magnetic field for instance in broadcast technology they use these monopole antennas and get very low loss by directing the signal exactly where they want to go, or the microwaves that power our cell phones, of course they are channeled in line of sight. Right now as far as I know magnets are built to give you a uniform field for the various applications, and this field spreads out in a standard dipole. If there was a way to direct this magnetic field better you could have a magnetic strong enough to hold you up powered by a handheld battery. You would have to do some research about it contact people involved in magnetic research including those maglev train people. Don't give up on the idea if you think it's good. What did Thomas Edison say? Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.

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Re: Crazy idea or possible future hydrofoil hover board desi

Postby C Johnson » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:05 am

So I'm still lost on how you would keep the wing from sinking of its not connected. With a land based hover board you have the ground as a fixed surface that you can have an opposing force push against. In water I'm not sure what you would push against I'd both sides can move independently. If you've ever played with magnets and you push to together they tend to shoot away from each other

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Re: Crazy idea or possible future hydrofoil hover board desi

Postby fun2kite » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:27 am

The wing is suspended by magnetic levitation in fixed point in relation to the board.
if you have multiple magnets positioned in a certain way, they have a focal point in which the object will be at rest and can't move away from that point. (this is my potentially wrong understanding on magnetic suspension in the air)

Once that is achieved, you can stand on the board and the wing below will act as if it is attached to the mast. but maybe with some little degree of freedom. As many pointed out, maybe the stiffness is lost and hydrofoil is not longer controllable.

Anyway, it is most likely just a crazy idea at this time.. Maybe 10 years from now, it could be implemented. Its ok to dream forward. :)

check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y51rrBmepMw
C Johnson wrote:So I'm still lost on how you would keep the wing from sinking of its not connected. With a land based hover board you have the ground as a fixed surface that you can have an opposing force push against. In water I'm not sure what you would push against I'd both sides can move independently. If you've ever played with magnets and you push to together they tend to shoot away from each other

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Re: Crazy idea or possible future hydrofoil hover board desi

Postby Starsky » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:13 pm

As mentioned earlier the strut is an important control surface.

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Re: Crazy idea or possible future hydrofoil hover board desi

Postby Mossy 757 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:19 pm

Starsky wrote:As mentioned earlier the strut is an important control surface.
One of the most important. Nothing about magnets would translate rider input to the lifting surfaces or provide stable pitch/roll/yaw control at high speeds.

I think a "next level" foil would be one where the control surfaces make fewer compromises to the gods of materials science.

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Re: Crazy idea or possible future hydrofoil hover board desi

Postby Starsky » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:58 pm

Yeah, super thin, super stiff, super strong, but direct connect.

The whole point is that wind is THE power source. Start requiring any kind of electrical power to achieve your riding and why the hell even bother with a sail? Would be like putting a jetpack on your horse to better pull your wagon!

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Re: Crazy idea or possible future hydrofoil hover board desi

Postby edt » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:03 pm

C Johnson wrote:So I'm still lost on how you would keep the wing from sinking of its not connected. With a land based hover board you have the ground as a fixed surface that you can have an opposing force push against. In water I'm not sure what you would push against I'd both sides can move independently. If you've ever played with magnets and you push to together they tend to shoot away from each other
If I were designing this I would make the wing out of carbon fiber so it would float, paint it white. If you hit a wave and the magnetic force disconnects the board then it will float up and you put it back in place. Magnets don't "shoot towards each other" they interact with each other according to how they are designed. You would want to create a magnet with a toroidal shape to the fields, where the magnets would want to get stuck at some exact fixed position.

Simple magnets with a N side and a S side do simple things, the N's push away from other N's and the S's push away from other S's while the N & S sides attract. Instead you want a shape with the N not being a simple dipole but a more complicated shape.

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Re: Crazy idea or possible future hydrofoil hover board desi

Postby edt » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:12 pm

fun2kite wrote:The wing is suspended by magnetic levitation in fixed point in relation to the board.
if you have multiple magnets positioned in a certain way, they have a focal point in which the object will be at rest and can't move away from that point. (this is my potentially wrong understanding on magnetic suspension in the air)

Once that is achieved, you can stand on the board and the wing below will act as if it is attached to the mast. but maybe with some little degree of freedom. As many pointed out, maybe the stiffness is lost and hydrofoil is not longer controllable.

Anyway, it is most likely just a crazy idea at this time.. Maybe 10 years from now, it could be implemented. Its ok to dream forward. :)

fun2kite you are giving up on this idea way too easy. I'm a sort of inventor myself, I will build all sorts of stuff, for kiting I stick to kiteboards mostly, my iceboard is my favorite creation and let me tell you, it's not about "having the idea". The idea is the tiniest smallest the least important aspect. First you have the idea, then you do your research then you start building prototypes, then you build your first full size prototype. It fails. Always. You always get it wrong. Then you go back do more research, get more help on your physics and you build your second prototype and it fails. And your third and fourth and fifth and sixth and you keep going for years and years, building and creating and most of all you have constant non-stop failure. Every time you do something you fail. This is what creation is about.

When the first kiters in france started designing their kites, the Legaignoux brothers began in 1984 they had failure after failure and it wasn't until 2005, over 20 years later they were finally able to invent the modern bridled inflatable, depowering, 4 line leading edge kite that we know and love today.

Ideas are worthless. Anyone can have an idea. What makes you an inventor is all the hard work after you have an idea. I have thousands of great ideas but what use are they if I don't put in the hard work? Not much!

As for myself I have zero interest in developing the magnetic hydrofoil. Like starsky said for me it's all about it being wind powered. I don't want this idea. It's yours. If you really want to start inventing you have to put in the hard work.

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Re: Crazy idea or possible future hydrofoil hover board desi

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:52 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:
Starsky wrote:As mentioned earlier the strut is an important control surface.
One of the most important. Nothing about magnets would translate rider input to the lifting surfaces or provide stable pitch/roll/yaw control at high speeds.

I think a "next level" foil would be one where the control surfaces make fewer compromises to the gods of materials science.
I am not sure this is correct :roll:

I have never considered the strut to be a control surface at all, whatsoever :-? :

In my eyes the strut is only a necessity in order to obtain the physical distance/levitation, with huge drag as a result :cry:

It is not lifting so not a fin nor keel, and when turning, the yaw effect and stabilisation would come from the wing and rudder (stab).

Of course, if mounted further rear on the fuselage you could have a smaller rudder, and reverse, if too far forward you need a bigger rudder as it will be neutral.

If it has a "control" effect of some kind, it could/should be changed by having a different design of the wing and rudder instead :wink:

As said - I dont see it as a control surface.

Might be wrong, but that is my firm belief, both back from the start and still is, till proven wrong :naughty:

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