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The Future of Foilboards ?

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tegirinenashi
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Re: The Future of Foilboards ?

Postby tegirinenashi » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:36 pm

This is interesting discussion. People with opinions, who never rode hydrofoil TT. And hawaiis, who did ride it, being busy somewhere else.

It would be nice to list all the reasons why hydrofoil TT is inferior, and how serious those issues are. To me it is just a wing gliding below water surface, which requires different balance skills. Is it less stable? How much? Is it slower? Even compared to low AR beginner hydrofoils? The video features pretty small TT, but certainly it can be mounted to door sized board...

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Re: The Future of Foilboards ?

Postby Starsky » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:40 pm

tegirinenashi wrote:This is interesting discussion. People with opinions, who never rode hydrofoil TT.
You mean like people that have never ridden a foil board opining on the future of foil boards ?

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Re: The Future of Foilboards ?

Postby darippah » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:16 am

Yea I've been hydrofoiling for 2 years or so now and I kind of miss the simplicity and ease of use, and ease of jumping/ adrenaline of a twin tip, but also do not want to sacrifice upwind performance / speed / silence / etc of the foil.

I'm sure there will be a new wave of foils available to cater to my wants , possibly a twin tip with much different aspect ratio and shape of the wings and a much shorter mast

It's all possible I'm sure there will be tons of development in this category in the near future

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Re: The Future of Foilboards ?

Postby Toby » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:51 am

So killing the, for many, awesome feel of a carve or jibe (ALSO great to do on a TT, although not the same driving feel) - would be really bad.
it's not about killing it for the ones who like it. No one wants to replace directional foils here.
It is just an addition, for those who don't like to jibe.

I think in the beginning, no one glided thru a jibe on foil all the way. Now many do it. Saying, after some practice one should be able to do different jibes on a TT as well.

Would look more fluent on a directional for sure.

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Re: The Future of Foilboards ?

Postby borist » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:48 am

for me the question is whether TT HF can be made to be as easy or easier to use than "beginner style" directional HF. Just because you don't need to jibe/turn the board, it still could be much harder to learn to ride than the conventional one and therefore non-starter

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Re: The Future of Foilboards ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:31 am

borist wrote:for me the question is whether TT HF can be made to be as easy or easier to use than "beginner style" directional HF. Just because you don't need to jibe/turn the board, it still could be much harder to learn to ride than the conventional one and therefore non-starter
Spot on, unless there comes a really complicated "active levelling" control system (I doubt it, prefer simplicity - but it might happen one day), the directionals are easier and more stable.

Just like learning on a small directional is easier than a TT.

Those starting on a TT tend to sideslip the board at first, because it is not natural to bend the rear leg.
Whereas when you put a student on a strapped small directional - they just glide away riding, because it is self tracking so to speak :D
We dont think about this anymore, because we are so used to riding TT's and bending our leg just a tad (not much is needed when experienced) - but for a newbee it is not the intuitive stance.

So besides being easier to ride a hydrofoil directional, and performing better and in lighter wind also - beginners will also get the great feeling of carving later - a win win win IMO.

One should not forget, that a hydrofoil is not "just" a board elevated above the water - it is a completely new set of muscle memory that has to be learned - which can not happen in a yiffy, it takes time no matter how much your mind wants it :rollgrin:

I think this is where each and everyone who has NOT learned hydrofoiling, goes very very wrong about "assumptions" of what it is like - just take the known phrase everybody says "I would like to try that" ha haa - makes absolutely no sense just to "try" :naughty: :naughty: :naughty:

8) Peter

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Re: The Future of Foilboards ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:34 am

tegirinenashi, some reasones why it is inefficient with the the current canard setup (a symmetrical main wing and a front and rear stabilizer), or any setup where the main wing does not rotate and turn itself :

1. The extra stabilizer is somewhat just added drag - but not quite as one end can contribute somewhat to overall lift too.
2. The lack of yaw stabilisation (no stab or a stab in the front too) will make it bad turning, so no stability in carves the same way.
3. But most and really important - you need a wing that is symmetrical not top/bottom, but LE/TE which has huge drag, less lift, and stalls early :(

#1 and 2 could maybe be solved if you had a "tail" that when in front, is somehow above the water :naughty:
#3 is a problem you have to accept without a mechanical 180 degree swing of the wing - but of course possible.

8) PF

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Re: The Future of Foilboards ?

Postby joriws » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:33 am

Is there some reason this design would not work? Or has it been done already?

Foil wings would be LE inwards (towards board center), meaning on riding direction the front/first wing is TE first and acts as stabilizing canard. Back wing is LE first making major lift and better stall properties on riding direction.

(wing size&aspect nor mast attachment point relative to board just quickly drawn - as this is just concept picture by me.)
tt_hydrofoil.png
tt_hydrofoil.png (4.44 KiB) Viewed 904 times
*edit* found this but the wings of this are different from my proposal
Image
Last edited by joriws on Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Future of Foilboards ?

Postby joriws » Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 am


PD Gorby 67
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Re: The Future of Foilboards ?

Postby PD Gorby 67 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:39 pm

There is a reason why fixed wing aircraft don’t fly backwards.

Instead of trying to find a way to get a fixed foil to fly backwards, maybe they should be looking at a pivoting mechanism, that lets you rotate the board on top of the strut (like some pivoting foot straps).

For me, the biggest problem with gybing a directional board is not carving the board through the turn, but switching my feet. Rotating the board on top of the foil addresses that problem, without causing many other problems.


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