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No rapid evolution, great !

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Peter_Frank
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No rapid evolution, great !

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:44 pm

I was thinking, that the last couple of years the hydrofoils havent changed a bit :wink:

Which is good, so you dont have to wait for the next "much better model" :naughty:

Foils 2-3 years old work just as good as new ones, when you are not racing :thumb:

Maybe small evolution details, but nothing that changes much - so the French has got it quite right with the earlier years evolution to get to this point, and even the first Carafino had the same principles, just with the exception most of todays foils are way superior in feel and performance, so extremely desirable.

There are cheaper aluminium foils offered now too, and way more brands, but same principles again, nothing new.

I find it great, so you dont have to change gear to something new, as long as your gear holds up :D

Maybe something revolutionary will come one day, just like the Bow/SLE kites in 2005, you never know - but right now you dont have to wait for better gear IMO.

8) PF
Last edited by Peter_Frank on Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: No evolution

Postby PullStrings » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:59 pm

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Re: No evolution

Postby Toby » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:11 pm

Don't forget the twintip hydrofoils ;-)

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Re: No evolution

Postby Starsky » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:18 pm

The stuff is so refined, people can be up and riding comfortably strapless within days. Thats a long way from toe in with snowboard boots on. I agree, we are very much near peak race foil until some real breakthrough occurs.

How long did it take for us to get the first wave specific kite? There are already wave specific wings.

I think we will still see evolution in the specialization front. We haven't seen any development toward outright speed.

Short little strut, minimal board, maybe boots, tiny little wings with really high take off speeds. Used in the trench in Namibia. That kinda thing is all still ahead of us. If guys can go 3 x the wind speeds on race kit. Maybe we can see speed records being set in 25 knots of wind.

P.S. re twin tip foils. Those have yet to make a mark. Besides, that is design that values convenience over performance regardless of how you define performance. That's development not evolution.

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Re: No evolution

Postby ronnie » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:20 pm

The Canard foil as far as I'm aware, has never been fully investigated.

2 wings lifting up V's one lifting up and one pushing down. That leaves a question?

Then there is a kite pulling directly against a foil - a whole new ball game, with the weight of the rider less of a factor in how much power (and speed) can be involved.

But yes - the level of efficiency the kitefoils have now reached leaves little room for improvement.
Last edited by ronnie on Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: No evolution

Postby 14ToeSide » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:48 am

I HUGELY disagree!!!!!!!! :anon: :anon: :anon: :desperado: :desperado: :desperado: :desperado: :holiday:

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Re: No evolution

Postby windmaker » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:29 am

Starsky wrote:
P.S. re twin tip foils. Those have yet to make a mark. Besides, that is design that values convenience over performance regardless of how you define performance. That's development not evolution.
Exact. :thumb:

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Re: No evolution

Postby Tone » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:34 am

What are you expecting?

What are you missing out on?

I agree they haven't changed much however the work over the last decade by the French, almost silently brought the sport to a near peak without anyone noticing. Now the changes are all very subtle.

Now it may not be a design breakthrough, but making foils out of Aluminium and bringing the price point way down is a great bit of progression, it is getting more into the sport which is always good.

Tone

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Re: No evolution

Postby abel » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:10 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:....
Maybe small evolution details, but nothing that changes much - so the French has got it quite right with the earlier years evolution to get to this point, and even the first Carafino had the same principles, just with the exception most of ....todays foils are way superior in feel and performance, so extremely desirable....
Maybe something revolutionary will come one day, just like the Bow/SLE kites in 2005, you never know - but right now you dont have to wait for better gear IMO.

8) PF
Tone wrote: I agree they haven't changed much however the work over the last decade by the French, almost silently brought the sport to a near peak without anyone noticing. Now the changes are all very subtle.
Now it may not be a design breakthrough, but making foils out of Aluminium and bringing the price point way down is a great bit of progression, it is getting more into the sport which is always good.

Tone
Hey PF,
At a first glance after reading your post I wondered about your argumentation that HF might have reached the end of revolution and only small evolution steps will prevail :think:.
Regretfully I came to the conclusion that it is quite a fact :-?.
The rationale comes from the energy efficiency point of view.
Even if there is a new "revolutionary" efficiency quantum leap, the relative gain will be small compared to the energy efficiency gain between a board vs a Hfoil set.
The current efficiency gain is about two to three times fold.
So even if another two fold higher efficiency will be achieved, the relative gain will be negligible compared to the current situation (Schei~~e !).

No doubt that price down will increase the popularity of Hfoiling.
Today any HFTF [HFoiling Techie Freak © :wink: ] is able to make, change, tweak and test zillion of ideas thanks to 3D scanning and printing technologies (which was/is not practical for kites because of their size).
BTW you can even print carbon.
This probably will boost evolution rate :dance:

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Re: No rapid evolution, great !

Postby mig27 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:24 pm

From an scientific point of view the current " large wing positive lift, rear small wing "negative pointing lift" creates drag, even if both wings, fuselage and mast would have no drag (theory).

Each form of imbalance costs energy.

A canard wing could be more efficient if they create equal lift with less drag (smaller wings).

But, I do not think the pull of a kite is the only reason for this "classical foil build up": does it not enhance steering and height control this way? Is that not the general reason for this set-up?


And Peter Frank: I also think you are right: Evolution instead of revolution. Also in racing.


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