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No rapid evolution, great !

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Mossy 757
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Re: No rapid evolution, great !

Postby Mossy 757 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:43 pm

I think the biggest evolutionary steps yet to come in kitefoiling will come from changes in kite design.

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davesails7
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Re: No rapid evolution, great !

Postby davesails7 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:35 pm

Racing evolution has slowed to a stop also despite most races being an open class.

Some still think spotz 2 (released in mid 2014) is the fastest. Spotz 3 was a slight change to the spotz 2 (mid 2015). Maxime is still winning on sword 2 (2014).

New race foils from other companies have come out, but they seem to just be catching up to the spotz and sword, no major breakthroughs.

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Re: No rapid evolution, great !

Postby Bletti » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:41 pm

davesails7 wrote:Racing evolution has slowed to a stop also despite most races being an open class.

Some still think spotz 2 (released in mid 2014) is the fastest. Spotz 3 was a slight change to the spotz 2 (mid 2015). Maxime is still winning on sword 2 (2014).

New race foils from other companies have come out, but they seem to just be catching up to the spotz and sword, no major breakthroughs.
I'm happy the pace of development is slow enough that I can race my second hand spotz2 (with reenforced mast/fuselage connection) and not be at a huge disadvantage for sport. Although, technology (and better production methods) has made the newest designs more rigid and robust. I'm waiting for the new Levitaz and KFA foils to hit the second hand market so I can upgrade when there's a subtle tweak next. Hopefully before the peg on my front spotz 2 wing and fuselage explodes!

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Re: No rapid evolution, great !

Postby plummet » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:37 pm

From the outside looking in the next evolution will be into big wave riding. When that occurs no doubt there will be some evolution in the designs to cope with riding big powerful waves.

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darippah
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Re: No rapid evolution, great !

Postby darippah » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:22 pm

Yes I'd love a setup that can easily ride small swell from way way out with no power needed from kite. Tow in wavefoiling similar to Kai Lenny's new prone paddle-In foiling gig

Wonder what major increase in wing span would do for catching small swell? Would need some evolution to minimize flex. Mast would have to increase as well

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Re: No rapid evolution, great !

Postby ronnie » Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:52 am

davesails7 wrote:Racing evolution has slowed to a stop also despite most races being an open class.

Some still think spotz 2 (released in mid 2014) is the fastest. Spotz 3 was a slight change to the spotz 2 (mid 2015). Maxime is still winning on sword 2 (2014).

New race foils from other companies have come out, but they seem to just be catching up to the spotz and sword, no major breakthroughs.
Currently, one wing pushes up and one pushes down. If they can eliminate the wing that pushes down, that should create a higher efficiency.
Changing the angle of attack of the foil is currently done by swinging it forward or backwards on the end of a 1 metre mast. That then requires a form of auto-correction to stabilise the centre of lift while the wings are being swung fore and aft relative to the rider (hence the second wing).

Moths and a few other craft have surface following wands, which control the pitch by keeping the AOA of the vessel constant, but altering the foil.
eg. on Page 7, a hinged foil on the bottom of a fixed mast.
http://www.glidefree.com.au/Operating%2 ... s%20R4.pdf

They studied whether it was more efficient to use ailerons on a moth or alter the whole wing, and found altering the AOA of the whole wing was more efficient.

So it may be more efficient (and faster) to race with just one wing.
One Wing Foil.jpg

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davesails7
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Re: No rapid evolution, great !

Postby davesails7 » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:54 pm

Seem like all those things (2 positive lift wings, one wing, one wing with active control) have been tried and didn't work out.

Who knows though. Five years ago the general consensus was that the hydrofoils would never beat the formula course race boards around a windward leeward course :thumb:

Mossy 757
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Re: No rapid evolution, great !

Postby Mossy 757 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:10 pm

ronnie wrote:
davesails7 wrote:Racing evolution has slowed to a stop also despite most races being an open class.

Some still think spotz 2 (released in mid 2014) is the fastest. Spotz 3 was a slight change to the spotz 2 (mid 2015). Maxime is still winning on sword 2 (2014).

New race foils from other companies have come out, but they seem to just be catching up to the spotz and sword, no major breakthroughs.
Currently, one wing pushes up and one pushes down. If they can eliminate the wing that pushes down, that should create a higher efficiency.
Changing the angle of attack of the foil is currently done by swinging it forward or backwards on the end of a 1 metre mast. That then requires a form of auto-correction to stabilise the centre of lift while the wings are being swung fore and aft relative to the rider (hence the second wing).

Moths and a few other craft have surface following wands, which control the pitch by keeping the AOA of the vessel constant, but altering the foil.
eg. on Page 7, a hinged foil on the bottom of a fixed mast.
http://www.glidefree.com.au/Operating%2 ... s%20R4.pdf

They studied whether it was more efficient to use ailerons on a moth or alter the whole wing, and found altering the AOA of the whole wing was more efficient.

So it may be more efficient (and faster) to race with just one wing.

One Wing Foil.jpg

Ronnie, most of the reason for a stabilizer is because of the moment put on the front wing by the harness hook located 6' above the center of lift of the front wing. Because the wing is receiving its power from so high up, it needs a stabilizer to balance that moment...so it ultimately has less to do with a speed-dependent angle of attack and more to do with the inherent balance challenges posed by a human rider wearing a waist/hip mounted harness.


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