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Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:55 pm

Wing dead on strut, I dont think will work well for most riders; i am very skeptical I must say.

Øyvind has a very special loose whipping style, like those riding skimboards aggressively.

Whereas for me, it would not work, as I love the "drive" from either the mast or the stabilizer, and in reality from both, as they give me the pleasant drive and turn.

Meaning, when I change down in stab size and more flat, I reach a point when small, where it does not feel as good when carving around like when driving a windsurf or a surfboard around in a bottom turn - it simply gets too loose for that great feel IMO.

Somewhat the same happens if the mast is too far forward it seems, both from friends building foils and from Øyvind now, the foil tends not to track pleasant when driven around in a carve, and even going straight it does not seem to track pleasant either.

Great if you want it extremely loose maybe, like Øyvind, but many of us will like it to be less loose and more "natural" (for us).

As said earlier, when riding stabless, the mast should in fact be positioned even further back than if having a stab, for same trim and dynamics balance.
Thus I doubt it will be pleasant putting it further forward instead of rearwards :roll:

What am I to say, havent tried the different setups myself (only stabless removing the stab), but I know for sure that I have a liking for "feeling the drive" in turns, instead of too skatey loose turns :rollgrin:

Denise, she is experimenting too with different wings and reflex, cool, and are you also testing mast position or further forward and furher rear?
A reflex wing has its center of effort a tad more forward than a "regular" wing, assume you know this as you are used to flying different wings on planes, but the difference is so small I dont think you can feel it - difference from stab to stabless is much bigger regarding how far you have to move your feet (or trim).

Good some are testing this, and last but not least, sharing with everyone in here :naughty:

8) Peter

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby ap888 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:49 am

Øyvind Looks like wing on mast is the future very nice :thumb:

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Denisesewa » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:20 am

The future for Oyvind maybe, for the rest of us probably not🤔

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:54 pm

ap888 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:49 am
Øyvind Looks like wing on mast is the future very nice :thumb:
Maybe not so much in front, but I was very happy with the first test with the strut half way (8 cm) more forward. As shown here:
viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2402095&p=1049421#p1049421

But you also need to fit a board to such a close to the middle strut conection, will go on testing. I didn't expected this, but for me this configuration still felt pretty much normal, but more lively, so more as far much more positive about riding, not talking about the static benefit, which comes on top. But will also try smaller faster wings and more forward positions to see how it feels here.

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby fun2kite » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:45 pm

Future shape of a perfect stabless foil?

https://www.businessinsider.com/mit-and ... ing-2019-4
5ca270bdffcb270cf733c333-960-720.jpg

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:49 pm

Last time I was 12 cm more forward than normal with the strut, so trailing edge of wing and strut on the same level, but for sure still not as far in front as Øyvind, but with the leading edge of the strut pretty much directly over the pressure point of the wing. Rest with straps was pretty much well balanced and felt well.

From the felling having the strut so much more forward I can't explain much better, apart from repeating: "It feels different" Lets say the Yaw is as its also logic more but in this position not yet only active steared than on a normal position where it is more guided. For me this setup felt still ok, but close to the boarder to something to much "different" so I think I will stay with this first, build a better stiffer conection and try to also test the smaller wing in this setup.

I think for a wing like the moses onda such a setup with an own build connector could be pretty interesting, so for those who have it and abillity and will to explore, give it a try, but also remember that you need a board with a far forward conectivity.

Another nice experience was, even if the board is pretty terrible for starts with smaller wings and much worse than the similar sized green one of page 15 (Setup on page 14 was nearly impossible to start) with the big wing if well balanced, board size and shape hasn't mattered and started in extremly low wind not to much powered.
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby borist » Wed May 01, 2019 2:17 am

Tried riding mono couple times and would appreciate some pointers. The setup I'm using is Gong surf wing medium size (I think it is the same as the one in picture above). The board is Levitaz Exo first gen. When I setup foil with the stab, mast position worked out to be all the way back. After removing stab I moved the mast forward few times until I reached position all the way forward in the tracks. Does that sound right? I did not measure it unfortunately to provide an accurate number. In this position I was able to ride and make some turns, but it still required a bit too much back foot pressure IMO. The biggest issue though was the water start. The wind was light and puffy so getting going was tricky. When I rolled onto the board and pointed the nose just a bit upward (higher AA), the lift was too much to control and foil just shot up from under me. This should be easier to control with mast further back, but as soon as I gained a little more speed, wing settled down and I started to feel soft nose dive with increasing speed indicating mast still too far back. So it was extreme front foot pressure at very low speed (I'm guessing related to increasing AA as the speed was dropping) to shifting to back foot bias at higher speed. I felt comfortably balanced only in a narrow band of speed, I'm guessing around 10-12 knots. I'm sure a lot of this is the lack of my experience with the setup and things will improve with time, however I'd like to get some pointers, especially with water start. I almost twisted my ankle trying to tame the foil starting up.
With the stab this foil is as stable as a cruise ship :lol:

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Wed May 01, 2019 11:43 am

borist wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 2:17 am
Tried riding mono couple times and would appreciate some pointers. The setup I'm using is Gong surf wing medium size (I think it is the same as the one in picture above). The board is Levitaz Exo first gen. When I setup foil with the stab, mast position worked out to be all the way back. After removing stab I moved the mast forward few times until I reached position all the way forward in the tracks. Does that sound right?
Yes, absolutely right. The bigger the wing the longer the travel distance inbetween stabi and monofoil setups. For the gong surf M wing the travel of effectiv 6 cm you have in your Exo can be to small as you could need about 8-10 cm for this foil. But the gong has extra holes in the strut plate so you can exceed both limits by about 2 cm and so should have enough travel space. But know, that my old Exo died also due to tracks becoming soft, so if you go to the tracks limits or over it this my accelerate the wear of the laminate around the tracks.
borist wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 2:17 am
I did not measure it unfortunately to provide an accurate number. In this position I was able to ride and make some turns, but it still required a bit too much back foot pressure IMO. The biggest issue though was the water start. The wind was light and puffy so getting going was tricky. When I rolled onto the board and pointed the nose just a bit upward (higher AA), the lift was too much to control and foil just shot up from under me.
Yes, I have the same problem, but it is more about experience and board size (Exo is already small for most). If you use a big board for the first sessions as recommended you can reach more easy higher speeds before take off with much lower pitch, so starting procedure will be more fluently with much less effort. The longer the strut and the shorter the board is, the worse it is. Even with a big wing the start consumes some force if board is small. Worst it is when additionaly the wing is very small/fast, the kite lines are short, the wind is low …

Already tried two times to ride this one, but even if both times I have been able to start it a few times, I have given up after some further unsuccesful tries, just to hard for my limited abilities.
Kitejunkies-Queen-Lily-Freerace-Mono.jpg
I will write something about how to start such a setup into the "< 1m board topic". For your setup you may try with a back loop, which was my favorite for the setup with surf M wing of the last comment.
borist wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 2:17 am
This should be easier to control with mast further back, but as soon as I gained a little more speed, wing settled down and I started to feel soft nose dive with increasing speed indicating mast still too far back. So it was extreme front foot pressure at very low speed (I'm guessing related to increasing AA as the speed was dropping) to shifting to back foot bias at higher speed. I felt comfortably balanced only in a narrow band of speed,
The problem is that a there is not just feet or strut in front or back topic but also the pitch angle inbetween wing and foot. Big low AR wings have huge possible angle of attack but you have just one flat board, thats why my board has a steptail. The problem is the same for stabi foils but on mono foils you will feel it a lot more when one of your leg is bend to much to compensate different angle of attack. As you do much more movements to controll your pitch, a bend knie will consume much more force. That's why for a monofoil it is Very important to find your personal most favorite Speed window and then Setup the foil by shimming inbetween foil and board to the angle which allows you to have both legs straight at that Speed.
borist wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 2:17 am
With the stab this foil is as stable as a cruise ship :lol:
Yes it is :D , terrible, just good for beginners or if you plan to have a picknick sitting on the deck. :wink:

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Denisesewa » Fri May 03, 2019 2:01 pm

If anyone in the states wants to try mono foiling on a proven wing I have available a reflex wing on a slingshot 30 inch mast, $150 plus shipping, board is available if someone is local to South Texas, my season is coming to an end and I don't need more than one monofoil,.
Video of some of my first rides on this foil.

20190116_162212_HDR.jpg
20190116_162302_HDR.jpg


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