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Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

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Denisesewa
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Denisesewa » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:10 pm

Horst Sergio wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:18 pm


Oh and let's hope that hatchet handle never remembers its original purpose :lol:

Ha! I remember hatchet hydrofoil from first month learning to foil, still hurts when I think about it.

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Denisesewa » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:45 am

Not an exciting video but proof of concept in light 9/10 knot wind, This is my 2nd hour monofoiling so pretty pleased so far.

Denisesewa
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Denisesewa » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:50 pm

So now having 3 sessions on the monofoil I find the pitching down @ higher speed to be not much fun especially when riding down the face of a wave or larger swell, I spent the past few days building another wing to the same shape as first one but this time with 30 mm wide reflex on trailing edge of aprox 3 degrees. Hopefully this will reduce the sudden change in pitch when changing speed.
Hope to test next week.
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revhed
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby revhed » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:29 pm

Wing fab looks great!
But wondering why you are having 4 screws, inserts, wing holes, bare all the load and not use the mechanical advantage of wing under fuse?
This is even more needed when mono one would think?
R H

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Denisesewa » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:53 pm

Because it's easy for experiment, if the wing works better than the first I will make a fuselage like the first one, it only has to make it through one session to find out.
Might not work at all

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby flying grandpa » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:38 am

Denisesewa wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:50 pm
So now having 3 sessions on the monofoil I find the pitching down @ higher speed to be not much fun especially when riding down the face of a wave or larger swell, I spent the past few days building another wing to the same shape as first one but this time with 30 mm wide reflex on trailing edge of aprox 3 degrees. Hopefully this will reduce the sudden change in pitch when changing speed.
Hope to test next week.
Hi, Denisesewa. Great monofoil wing. It works really nice and one reason may be clear upper surface thaks to fuse under wing.
Sudden change in pitch may result from flow deattachment on the back of bottom wing side at speed. In case it is true, the reflex may become countrproductive.
Switch from flat to lightly convex bottom wing surface may help?
The vid show nicely that your footwork is similar to that on a trickboard. I wonder if a race position with front hip forward would make any good work for monofoiling.

@ Horst Sergio
Hi, Horst.
Will you agree with above last sentence?

I wonder what was the outcome of your pumping experiments. Theoretically it should give better results then with stab, if you only manage to do it.

I am courious you prefer small wings. Are they much more difficult or it is rather a metter of a bit higher „frequency” of those wings.
Horst Sergio wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:18 pm
Try to find somebody to buy your old foils, as it could happend that you never want to go back :wink:
I would certainly buy one wing from Denisesewa, not old but a new one of course.
Tadeusz

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Denisesewa » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:07 am

It is difficult to imagine the water flow characteristics, I do know that more convex bottom has less change in center of effort than flat bottom for various pitch angles, I also know that my radio control flying wings use reflex to control pitch instability, or in case of full size flying wings a computer controls flight characteristics, so, with monofoil we riders are a (very slow) computer trying to stabilize the flight, I hope that reflex will slow the pitch enough for human reaction to fully control as it does in RC airplane.
This is a fun experiment, try one thing at a time to find out a solution or at least a direction towards a solution.
I ride a small stance which I like for tricks and waves, also my main board is 110 cm.
I appreciate all thoughts and ideas from everyone!
BTW, I will not keep fusalage under wing, I had this fusalage already so making a wing to test reflex was fast and easy.

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:41 am

@Tadeusz:
Yes I also think a race style body position also helps for monofoil control, but maybe not in all points:
- a bit wider footstance, if even not as wide as on a raceboard is for me necessary to reach speeds above 30 km/h, but
- I don't angle hip as much as this is in my eyes just necessary for high loads riding overpowered in races and that is the same problem as with pumping:

I think for pumping and full race style it is all about force, so you need a board that handles stability by itself as there is no room for the extra force you need to stabilies a mono. That's why I think those both disziplins will always be a bit away from monofoiling, doesn't mean that we will not see once somebody free pumping on a monofoil, but not sure if on the end it will be more effective (drag - stability - force) and also not sure if it will be me or more likely Øyvind or Denisesewa..

..and yes small wings are more difficult, but also no problem going step by step, then you're just on a higher speed level and more agil. For me just more fun for jumping, as the whole setup can be made lighter, faster, etc. But they require more likely straps for manouvers, just preference of style, as the kite is. Also like Øyvind's way a lot, but not too much motivation to go towards this direction, as already much more into another.

@Denisesewa:
Great work again and thanks for experimenting and sharing. :thumb:
I think you made a good point that the more stable load point position with reflex profile may help. I also know the effect that the mono can suddenly pitch down when accelerating too fast (e.g. in front of a jump) from the first year. I think I now have get used to it so it is no more big problem. But I am pretty sure my freerace setup with a more symetrical wing with less camber and less cord does have this behaviour much less than the low AR higher cambered wing, so reflex profile could be a help.

And as said, even if stance is something to get used to:
- think about using higher stance for higher speeds and
- for jibes think about going completely without hook as Øyvind or with two frontstraps. For me actually with a high performance foil kite (which may make a different) flying role tack on a mono starts to be the easiest manouvers of all, jibes are always harder.
Stance and tacks you see here, the board is 90 cm:
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revhed
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby revhed » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:22 pm

@Horst
Great vid, THX for sharing! :thumb: :D :wink:
You are getting better and better, BRAVO!
Still more than welcome to come show off for us any time!
@Denisesewa
I assume you mean because mono wings lower surface is "flatter" than the curved top, that is just easyier to mount to flat fuse?
From a strictly mechanical strength point of view it is obvious that taking advantage of surface area between wing under fuse is obvious.
R H

Denisesewa
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Denisesewa » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:02 pm

Hi Horst
I think I understand about stance after whatching your video, I will experiment with that.
I am always impressed with how smoothly you ride, you tacks look perfect!
I think you and Oyvind will show the progression of monofoil in your different styles, I like both styles but have very poor skills compared ( even on normal foil) and am most happy carving waves. Monofoil brings whole new fun to flat water.

Hi RH,
Actually I mean that for this test I did not want to take the time to make a fusalage which is more difficult than making a wing since this test wing may not work and I will make more wings to test, when I like a wing I will make a fusalage for it mounted permanently on top like the first monowing I made.
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