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Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun May 26, 2019 7:18 am

ap888 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 1:10 am
Next session will be riding stabless first time... on 683s and Groove Skate(M) any suggestions where the mast should go on the track :?: ride strapless by the way...

Mast should be moved somewhat forward, from your normal trim with a stab, as your col moves back :D

8) Peter

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby ap888 » Sun May 26, 2019 6:39 pm

Should the mast be moved all the way forward it's usually 2cm from the back ?..

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun May 26, 2019 7:46 pm

ap888 wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 6:39 pm
Should the mast be moved all the way forward it's usually 2cm from the back ?..

I dont know, as I dont know how long your track is?

Horst puts one of his 12 cm further forward when removing his stab.

You could go conservative and put it a bit forward only, and push it up, and as you ride strapless it should be no big deal just standing with front foot a bit further back when finding the sweetspot :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby ap888 » Mon May 27, 2019 11:21 pm

Just finished 1st mono session on 683s works great had mast all the way forward and yeah all about finding the sweet spot for speed but man was it fun...mega carvy so fun just doing turns didn't try any foot switches yet but went from heel side to toeside jibs and other way around but took about maybe 30min to get to a point was not touching down on the water if u haven't tried mono definitely recommend trying it taking off the stab is like a complete new foil ...also could tell was much less drag with no stab obviously but definitely more light wind friendly :thumb:

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About how to find first try mono strut position

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:59 pm

Hi ap888, as it is a common question:

how much the strut on the board has to travel forward, when dismounting the stabi:

This is a first try to give a general answer with your numbers as example:

Your main wings root chord is 19 cm,
if you have a bigger stabi with high angle of attack, take 1/3 of main wings chord lenght, so here around 6 cm strut more forward
if you have a small stabi with lower angle of attack, take 1/5 of main wings chord lenght, so here around 4 cm strut more forward
and if you are not sure about your stabi's relative size or relative angle of attack, something inbetween so 5 cm
(as your usable traveling length on your board should be 10 cm, starting from 2 cm, also 6 cm should be possible)

For my most extrem setups as a
small high AR 580 cm² wing with 12 cm chord in combination with a tiny old bionic race stabi on a short fuselage, difference inbetween mono and normal is just about 2 cm. As the support of the stabi is here so low, also the step to monofoiling is very small.

For my biggest surf wing with 26 chord with a big high angled stabi the difference is around 12 cm, maybe even 15 cm which I have writen on page 15.

@Peter Frank:
so the 12 cm you refer to are just for very big surf wings and I think you have read it in the wrong context, when I was talking about moving just the strut at the connection to the wing.

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby flying grandpa » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:36 am

My next monofoil try after half a year brake was not easy - unexpectadly.
My new setup as on picture looked easiest for me, as 1500cm^2 Space Skate 65cm should be slow enough to allow my reactions and it was not. I was fighting with jumping monofoil for two hours to harness it before first 100m flight.

Image

My conclusions are as follows:
1. Alu mast and heavy wing are enemies of easy learning. They just slow down your legs control inputs.
2. Behind boat lerning was my biggest friend half a year ago. Precise control of boat speed helps a lot in first flights. This way you can use the rule to solve one problem at a time. First learn footwork behind a boat, then copy with changing inputs from your kite.
3. Lerning to monofoil with a kite is counterintuitive in comparison with my first hydrofoil trials years ago. Main problem then, was too little speed before flight and that caused kangarooing. Here main problem is too much speed as soon as you start to fly. Solution I found after two hours was to dive the kite only enough to step on board and keep kite very high as soon as board lift off - heading into the wind as much as possible to kill overspeeding.
4. Direct undermast location of the foil makes the setup very agile in directional stability, but that is very nice and helpfull when fighting to survive above the surface.
5. To improve foil trim against the board longitudal axis i put a washer under front plate screws.
6. I wonder if it will be possible to jump with this heavy, slow foil.

Tadeusz

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:32 am

Hi Tadeusz,
looks good :thumb: , but not sure about your conclusion.
I think your problems could have been mainly caused by strut/strap position. Just check comparision with my similar strut over wing setup (with a 90 cm strut, compared to your 65 cm, to get a feeling for scaling).

It looks like your strut is way to much forward or in other words your front strap way to much to the back which could have caused to much front foot pressure which you may not feel during start but what would cause you canguruing.

I had exacty the same problem with the high AR setup shown with bad strut position on the last page and it also tooks my quite a while to feel that strut position was the problem.
Foot-Stance-Comparision-Monofoil.jpg
Foot-Stance-Comparision-Monofoil.jpg (212.03 KiB) Viewed 453 times
I am also not sure if a boat is realy a good teacher due to lack of self control over pull and lack of helpful upward pull and momentum control:
Momentum control on a kite you have by using the two conection points: 1.trapez and 2.hands on the bar/depower string which becomes stiff under load.

Just have low experience behind a boat that was on top for the wing size to slow, but impression was as named.
Monofoil-Sailboat.jpg

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby grigorib » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:21 pm

Nice prototype, isn’t it
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:13 pm

grigorib wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:21 pm
Nice prototype, isn’t it
Definitely, very nice. :thumb:

Some weeks ago I had two very nice sessions in acceptable sea waves. Hope to get more as monofoiling in waves fits so well in my eyes, even if it is extremly consumtioning. But the fact that you nearly can't walk anymore, you well feel just after the session, during it just feels like the perfect flow just being focused on the actual secound to just ride the wave going down down down, faster faster, keeping balance ... :D
I was on my Levitaz Cruizer which is to me is pretty much perfect for that, but also the Element is pretty nice when riding more agressiv and doing other thinks appart from riding down the wave aswell, but pretty difficult to switch feet when just using a as small as possible underpowered well drifting kite as Peak4 or ConceptAir Wave.

But the real new experience I wanted to talk about is:

I finally tried the Moses Onda 633 with and obviously without stab:
Both tries just very short so also just short my very first impressions for sure as monofoil:
It is as expected for sure the easiest Monofoil I have ever tried in its size for sure significant easier then my Gong M and L wings with the same and bigger size. It feels very nice balanced. I will have to try if sit foiling maybe will be possible with it in the next time. What is possible for sure is that it is pumpable, not just with but also without stab. Appart from that I actually don't think I like it more than my Levitaz Cruizer, which feels faster more agil and performance, but when I can I will go on trying with the Onda aswell especially for pumpfoiling.

About my first pumpfoiling experience with and without stabi I have already writen something here:
viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2402613&p=1065786#p1065786

And have actually put together two setups to learn it better in combination with kitewings and well drifting kites unhooked as Peak4. Hope to come back with further results in the next time.
Kitejunkie-Pump-Monofoils.jpg
Pumpfoils:
Old 40 l raceboard with new strap settings and a 80 cm strut and Gong L wing
Groove Skate XS with 96 cm strut and Cruizer (hope to try the new SHAKA M with 80 cm strut aswell)
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby grigorib » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:01 pm

Horst Sergio wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:13 pm
...
But the real new experience I wanted to talk about is:

I finally tried the Moses Onda 633 with and obviously without stab...
I can ask Stringy about making custom CNCed monofoil fuselage for 633.

I don’t think we can expect many production stabless setups any soon so maybe it’s a good idea to check out custom

The simplest would be a cutoff from existing setup behind the mast. A better one might be mast mounted above the wing and wing trailing edge located behind the mast mount


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