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Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

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Horst Sergio
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First Wing Monofoiling

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:36 pm

grigorib wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:01 pm
I can ask Stringy about making custom CNCed monofoil fuselage for 633.
...
The simplest would be a cutoff from existing setup behind the mast. A better one might be mast mounted above the wing and wing trailing edge located behind the mast mount
Hi grigorib,
I would recommend a 633 Monofuse that is shaped like normal or with the strut just a little bit more forward as your previous models, but I would take care to give the "cutted" end a nice hydrodynamic shape by reducing diameter, for example by two planes hitting each other with an sharp angle of around 14° as the strut profile does but not necessarily sharp on the end but well rounded with a radius of about 1-2 mm. So you will achive both a low drag but no extra parts but less parts that may hurt you.

I would not recommend a strut over wing concept for first try:
1. As it just feels additionally to the loose pitch also loose or better to say "different" in yaw and combined roll, which you don't want maybe, especially not for the first year of monofoiling
2. By dismounting the stabi your strut position under the board comes about 3 - 6 cm more foreward anyway, so if additionally putting the strut more about 11 cm more forward over the wing will cause that you need an additional track in your board. (I just have one special customeade board with a so much forward track)
3. With the moses system a strut over wing design could maybe become a bit wide and therefore draggy.


I had today my first try in Wing Monofoiling :D

(again with the duotone 5 m² Foil wing)
and it was as expected very easy, first 3 starts maybe needed a bit more wind or failt, till I found pressure point, but then everything was the same as my other till now two wing foiling sessions.
Even the jibe nr. 3 was already the first successful. Just foot switching for sure could take quite long to learn without stab, as for that the support of the wing is worse then you are used to have by a kite. After 1/2 hour I started to Jibe, Jibe, Jibe, Jibe in just about 8 m distance like mad and as never done with a kite where even with short lines you can't switch course so quick. It was a real pleasure.

Only drawback this day was a start with my 40 l foil raceboard was not successful, not necessarily impossible, but the moment when I managed to stand on the board pressed under water and with the wing flying over my head there was just to low wind to word the board up to the water surface. So I had to use again the giant around 80 litre old kite raceboard.
Hope to find something significant lighter and jumpable with straps, but in the range of 50-70 litres nearly no big surf foil and also no small SUP foil boards. :( ... and not jet ready for something customade ... even if the XL Groove Skate (ca. 40 l) of a friend is pretty close to what I am looking for ... maybe ad an XXL Skate to my XS Skate .. :) to think about ...

Oh and last try was with the XXXXL (old kite race) monofoil board and my 5 m² Peak4 in so little and difficult wind that even the Peak sometimes started to collabse ... unexpected this strange setup worked pretty nice and started with no pull in the loops but also due to the mono was able to turn and react fast enough in some strong gusts.
All-Size-Kitejunkie-Monofoils.jpg
..also tried the Ozone single skin in comparision, but better not talk about that .. let's say, as this is the wrong topic anyway.

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby tomtom » Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:33 pm

What about peak on bridals and unhooked?- so many possibilities here :) Great times ahead! But it already looks like wingfoil can be even more fun than kite in some conditions.

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:24 am

tomtom wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:33 pm
What about peak on bridals and unhooked?- so many possibilities here :) Great times ahead! But it already looks like wingfoil can be even more fun than kite in some conditions.
Great times ahead, indeed :D

As said I already tried mono wingfoiling in flat water conditions and it felt very well. But I think with a kite I would always prefer the option for a strong start loop to use the small boards I like to. But since long want to at least shorten lines of my Peaks down to about 16-17 m2 as I have on all my ohter kites anyway.

Even if many may think the combination:
monofoil + unhooked + waves + (single skin) is too much ... I just can tell that I had a stoke, which I haven't had for long in just pretty small waves and without too much turns, just riding down the windwaves with mostly lines close to slack kite at zenit holding unhooked with one hand, full free monofoil balancing, just an incredible free feeling. :)

Only thing for the next try could be to add strabless, as you want to have front food over the centre line of board if just powered by the wave.


Oh and again another insight 8)
Till now I thought monofoiling is a bit limited in going distance as with stabs already done over 100 km but witout not more than half of this.
These days I had a single track of 65 km in open sea conditions, witout being tired on the end and one hour later additionally a wave session with about 30 km. The distance run with the Element, the wave session with Cruizer wing.

But not sure which one is better for me for distance, as I already measured with all 3 of my Levitaz mono wing setups top speeds over 40 km/h in flat water.

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby elguapo » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:54 pm

maybe this is a dumb question...


but why ride stabless?
what is benefit?

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:19 am

elguapo p wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:54 pm
...but why ride stabless?
what is benefit?
indeed, the answer could be somewhere in this topic, but when I got more time I will try to do an update for you :wink: till then just try it here:

viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2393935&start=135

For me the question is more, why accepting all the disadvantages of stabifoiling? So since 2 years I am riding just about 3 % of the time with stabi. Only advantages here for me:
+ sit riding, which I realy miss on the mono
+ better pumping (lets see how important for wing foiling for me)
+ riding much faster than 40 km/h and jumping over 10 m which both I used to with stabi, but don't really need
... that's it. The list of disadvantages for stabis is so much longer for me.

Here is the 65 km monofoiling track, close to the island of Fehmarn. Next time riding the whole circle around it could be a nice project, as now also in the range of a monofoil:
Kitejunkie's-Monofoil-65_km-Fehmarn.jpg
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby foilfun » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:16 am

I just started using a mono a few weeks ago. Very fun and challenging. Much harder to jump big, but still fun trying. The 360s are surprisingly easy. Biggest plus for my spot--it goes through weeds! All my other foils are suffering from the weed bombs. Mono 10X better.

We've never had weeds this bad. ☹
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby elguapo » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:56 pm

i'm beginning to see the light..



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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby joekitetime » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:07 pm

Kudos to Horst for all the cool info! I've been mentally playing with the option of stabless and have a few questions...

But first, why? For me I like seeing Oyvind slide the foil atop the water, skid if you will. That would be my goal. Secondly, a bit of a safety blanket perhaps, having less to get cut on. Thirdly, a more carveable foil, although becoming less and less of an issue as my skills improve.

Can you progressively ride smaller and smaller stabilizers to eventually get rid of it all together? Pretty much everyone I talk to about stabs seems to recommend the next smaller size to make the foil more "lively". So, by extension, eventually it makes sense that it goes away.''

Kinda just thinking out loud here...

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Kitenuovoman » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:51 pm

Hopefully its the future... :heartface: :heartface:

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:35 pm

joekitetime wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:07 pm
Snip...
Can you progressively ride smaller and smaller stabilizers to eventually get rid of it all together? Pretty much everyone I talk to about stabs seems to recommend the next smaller size to make the foil more "lively". So, by extension, eventually it makes sense that it goes away.''

Kinda just thinking out loud here...

Yes, you could progressively ride smaller and smaller stabs, and then ditch it.

But I can not see any reason to take this cumbersome route.

If you want to ride stabless, just go for it straight away.
You need to stand a bit further back on the board, or move your mast forward.

As Oyvind has said, your body (musle memory) need to adapt like when new to foiling, but it comes pretty fast.

Still think it is a very individual thing, as it is not only about how stable or not it will be.

For me, when I make or ride a smaller stab, there is a point where I dislike when too small.
Eventhough I will strongly recommend everyone to use a smaller stab than at present, they are way to big IMO, on all foils almost.

It is not because it gets difficult to ride when too small, it is because the lovely driving carving feel is lost when too small.

At least I find it is lost, and this is one of the main reasons why I foil - because of this very feeling :thumb:

As said, it is individual, just like some like carving driving surfboards with fins, others like skimboards maybe without fins - the same difference between feeling driving versus loose (slippery?) and agile.

This is why I love a really small stab to give agility, but not so small that it loses its "Drive".

Where others want is as loose as possible.

My point though is, that I would recommend to take the plunge and learn right away by removing your stab and modifying trim.

And dont just "try" it, DO it and take the time to learn/adapt, as just like when learning kitefoil, we all know you have to be dedicated and suddenly it starts to click.

8) Peter
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