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Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

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tomtom
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby tomtom » Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:13 pm

Many thanks! It looks i must buy one to really know :)

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby ronnie » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:18 pm

tomtom wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:00 am
But how much low drag? Compared to slow wing like NP Glide M or compared to Onda 633 - which is quite low drag? Thanks! Or even better some who tried both in low power environment /as small kite as possible with occasional pumping/ some comments?

Many thanks!!!
Oyvind says you notice the extra drag when you put the stabiliser back on, and it feels like you are dragging weed.

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Jyoder » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:47 pm

Do all mono wings require significantly more back foot pressure as you speed up than when riding slow? That was the biggest thing I didn’t like about riding my SS Infinity 76 mono.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:31 pm

Jyoder wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:47 pm
Do all mono wings require significantly more back foot pressure as you speed up than when riding slow? That was the biggest thing I didn’t like about riding my SS Infinity 76 mono.

I think so.

As the forward pitching moment is proportional to wing area, and increases squared with speed.

So for "normal" wings, with negative pitching moment, you have to stand quite some distance further and further back, the faster you go.

This is outbalanced with the stab on normal foils, so eventhough the pitching is 4 times as high if you go twice as fast, the stabilizer will also lift down 4 times as much, so it evens out and you dont have to move your feet.

Of course one can use "S" wings, stable wings for stabless, then you dont have to move your feet at different speed.
But these wings are not efficient, even less efficient than a "normal" wing with a small stab, so maybe not interesting...

Some must have tested how they work though?
For gliders they are not good at all, but maybe they could work for hydrofoiling I dont know.

In reality with the normal wings, if you ride at the same speed most of the time, like I believe most do, it should not matter when riding stabless, as the feet stance wont move then.

8) Peter

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Denisesewa » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:57 pm

Simple reflex (small amount) @ the trailing edge pretty much stops the pitching down at speed, there isn't enough performance loss to detect, there is a limit to how much reflex is usable (or even needed) . Too much doesn't help the pitching any further but does slow top speed and acceleration (increased drag due to turbulence.)
At least that's what I think after experimenting with various amounts of reflex and no reflex on the same wing design.
As has been mentioned here before twisting the front hip to windward also helps control the pitching and it does work although I don't really understand why. :-?

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:04 am

Thanks Denise, I was thinking about you when writing, as I remember you experimenting with S (or reflex) camber wings just like on our tailless gliders (flying wings), where they are not up for the task apart from for fun :thumb:

So just a tad is sufficient on a hydrofoil to feel quite stable, nice :D

8) Peter

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Denisesewa » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:28 am

Yep, just a "tad", the universal unit of measure.
:cool2:

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby bigtone667 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:52 am

I decided to remove the 440 AXIS stabiliser from my foil and give stabless a go using an AXIS 102 surf wing (2000cm2).

Launched fine and immediately started bucking up and down.Once I stopped pushing and lifting my front foot and pushed my rear back (a lot) I was fine.

I really enjoyed the sensation.

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby ghradil » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:21 pm

I apologize for my late response. Holiday madness.

Aluminum struts are generally stiffer than carbon struts. They are also much cheaper to manufacture and much easier to offer in different lengths, since a mold is not required for each length.
The down sides are the issues of weight and corrosion. Delta aluminum struts use a thinner wall so the strut weight is only about 100 g more than the same length carbon strut. The corrosion issue must be dealt with by rinsing with fresh water, occasional disassembly and using anti-siezing compounds.

I don't think that I am the right person to comment on competitors foils, obviously I have a bias towards Delta products. Kyle, the OK kiteboarder, has tested the 633 and the Delta back to back. I think his skill set is actually slightly better than the average foiler, he can do foot switch jibes.

Kite Junkie has expressed interest in the Delta mono and hopefully I can get him a foil in the spring. He can weigh in on what he thinks of it. A foil specifically designed for use without a stabilizer is much easier to ride than a conventional wing ridden without a stab. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

I am willing to ship aboard but the VAT or other import duties will need to be taken care of on the receivers end.

Regards,

George
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Gurval » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:10 am

Hi.
I was obliged to change, just a little bit, my stance when i started to ride singlewing foil. I feel that i use more my back foot when i curve, but it's because of less pressure on front foot rather than more pressure on back foot.
The low drag of Monfoils can be easily verified with a boat and a few instruments. I'm totally agree with analyse about foil area and kitefoiling or wingfoiling. The minimum saturation of speed allows you to have more surface and change the way you ride.
Here is the 2000cm2 singlewing.
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