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Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:29 am
by Mossy 757
Toby wrote:Horst Sergio: let us know what Mischa had to say after he tried it!

I think what keeps more people away from hydrofoils is the jibing. So there is a market for sure for the TT HF.

If the wind is too light for em to have fun on TT, why not take a TT HF and do my stuff with it? Sounds fun ;-)
Because having to stop, drop in the water, and redirect the kite with a TTHF offers no advantage to the directional format BUT does include a huge amount of drawbacks in the design of a stable, easy to ride foil.

For everyone who has ridden a foil, this is self-evident, the idea of wings that go both ways means you leave 50% of your performance on the table and create all these stability challenges that will make the foil harder to ride and learn on. It'll be just as difficult to change directions with as a directional foil, if not more so.

It's not that people are closed minded or insistent on everyone conforming to one style of riding, it's that this idea of a bidirectional foil is literally stupid, like, from an engineering perspective.

If you're going to operate under the assumption that you have to water start to change directions, you should just do what Vadim from Greenhat does in this video and switch feet in the water. I do this when it's too rough to tack and I can literally switch feet as quickly as I can redirect the kite:

https://youtu.be/L_ehfhrkcSo?t=18s

If you do this, you get to ride a foil that will be easier, more stable, and faster than any TTHF could possibly be, with the added advantage of being able to overcome your crippling fear of gybeing if you so choose. If you buy a TTHF, you'll never know if you want to tack and gybe because it simply won't be an option, which is honestly kind of a bummer.

Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:41 am
by borist
While I have no interest in TTHF personally, I see no reason not to try to develop one. While it is unlikely to be very efficient, we have no idea if it can be fun in other ways. It would be a different style of course and for the majority of those who might see it as a way into HF it will turn out probably lot less interesting than it may seem
I do not like the board on the video though at all. Regular thin style TT, light but non-flexing shoud be better IMO

Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:50 am
by windmaker
Toby wrote:
Lokihel wrote:Also, I seriously hope that twin-tip foiling doesn't become a thing. People need to learn how to tack and gybe directionals, or even just forever ride toeside on the one tack.
bullshit people need to learn.

Just let them have fun their way.

People told me to go unhooked...then to take a surfboard, now to hydrofoil...guess what...I am having the blast of my life!

I never had fun jibing...and never will! Just give me a TT foil and I will show you what I will do with it...
It is always funny when people who have never done it or don't like it tell the others how it should be done. Have fun your own way but don't mislead people with your zero hydrofoil experience.

Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:03 am
by Toby
Windmaker: your comment doesn't make sense.

Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:36 pm
by Alvaro
How many of you remember when the first chicken loop came out, and the "purists" said "If you can't handle power kitesurfing is not for you", "Four line kites will never substitute 2 line kites", etc.

I haven't tried any TTHF, but I would love to! By Definition, it is not a good idea to Shackle innovation.
Let's try It and see where it takes us.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:38 pm
by Bille
windmaker wrote: ...
Also agree, TT hydrofoil will never be as efficient as directional and therefore has no reason to be. Can't understand why someone would want to waste time with this.
Thats what my neighbor said , when i built the kiteboard i learned on,
(actually bent the rocker in the condo's hot-tub, then covered it in carbon) ; he didn't get it at all . :lol:
Alvaro wrote:How many of you remember when the first chicken loop came out, and the "purists" said "If you can't handle power kitesurfing is not for you", "Four line kites will never substitute 2 line kites", etc.

I haven't tried any TTHF, but I would love to! By Definition,
it is not a good idea to Shackle innovation.
Let's try It and see where it takes us.

Just my 2 cents.


:thumb:

Bille

Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:53 pm
by Mossy 757
Alvaro wrote:How many of you remember when the first chicken loop came out, and the "purists" said "If you can't handle power kitesurfing is not for you", "Four line kites will never substitute 2 line kites", etc.

I haven't tried any TTHF, but I would love to! By Definition, it is not a good idea to Shackle innovation.
Let's try It and see where it takes us.

Just my 2 cents.
How many twin tip airplanes do we have on the market? Have you ever seen a twin tip sailboat? Have you ever ridden a bicycle that goes backwards as well as it goes forwards?

This isn't about stifling innovation, it's about looking at companies trying to jump on board with the foiling fad and sell a shitty product to gullible Nervous Nelly's at a premium price when the directional alternatives are almost certainly (from an engineering standpoint) going to be much easier to use and likely much more fun.

I may come off as being one of those people totally shitting on the idea, but look at the threads about the clicker bar or the fireball...didn't make a peep because honestly, those innovations seem to be aimed at a real engineering problem: "how do we make an existing system easier, safer, more durable, or convenient for our customers?"

These TTHF's are more along the lines of, "can we shit out something that fits into the latest trend of foiling without scaring away people who are afraid of some of the inherent risks of an inherently dangerous activity?"

I'd be more behind companies developing safer and easier foiling technology instead of coming up with new and exciting ways for people to snap their ankles or spear themselves with carbon fiber daggers.

Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:04 pm
by sabraxas
Mossy 757 wrote: How many twin tip airplanes do we have on the market? Have you ever seen a twin tip sailboat? Have you ever ridden a bicycle that goes backwards as well as it goes forwards?

This isn't about stifling innovation, it's about looking at companies trying to jump on board and sell a shitty product to gullible Nervous Nelly's at a premium price when the directional alternatives are almost certainly (from an engineering standpoint) going to be much easier to use and likely much more fun.
I heard the same comment in 2001 from a windsurfer that did hate the brand new twintip kiteboards... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:00 pm
by Mossy 757
sabraxas wrote:I heard the same comment in 2001 from a windsurfer that did hate the brand new twintip kiteboards... :lol: :lol: :lol:
A twin tip is a displacement board that planes on a flat surface. A hydrofoil is a cambered wing and stabilizer assembly that creates lift when propelled forward through a fluid medium. There's a big difference between a flat board pushing equally both ways and trying to overcome the engineering flaws in creating a symmetric wing section that generates lift with stability when the flow is reversed.

The biggest challenge with hydrofoils is making them stiff, stable, and easy to ride. When you try to engineer something that defies the principles of lift, you're attacking that goal with both hands tied behind your back. You either end up with a huge list of compromises or you end up with an inferior product.

Re: Litewave Twin-Tip Hydrofoil.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:47 pm
by Starsky
Word.

Twintip Hydrofoils....For those who can only jump one way!

Bit ironic don't you think?